What Four Decades of Employee Ownership Actually Looks Like
Most discussions of ESOPs focus on the transaction: the sale, the tax treatment, the financing. Far less attention goes to what happens in the decades that follow. Yet the long run is where an ESOP either proves itself or doesn’t — in whether the company keeps growing, whether employee accounts build real wealth, and whether the culture the founders hoped for actually takes hold.
There is a persistent assumption among owners of privately held companies that employee ownership and ambitious growth are incompatible — that an ESOP company must settle into a slow, conservative posture. The record of long-tenured ESOP companies suggests otherwise, but that record is hard to see from the outside. It requires hearing from the people who have actually run these companies over decades: how they make decisions, how they educate employees, and how the structure shapes strategy.
This post draws on a conversation with the current and recently retired CEOs of CCI Systems, a network infrastructure firm that has been employee owned since 1985. It covers how the ESOP was formed, how it changed the company’s decision-making horizon, how the company built and maintains its ownership culture, and how it now uses the ESOP as an advantage in acquisitions and recruiting.
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Video Transcript
Chapter 1: Introduction: CCI Systems’ 40-year ESOP story
4 seconds
Hi everyone. Welcome to ESOP Radio.6 seconds
I’m Trevor Gilmore, CEO of Menke and I’m your host today. This is a great one.11 seconds
We’re talking with the leaders of CCI systems about their broadband business and how they’ve used employee ownership to power tremendous growth20 seconds
for over 40 years since their first Esop deal in 1985.24 seconds
We have witnessed them grow to over 1000 employees, acquiring the companies along the way, and witnessed their value increase on average, 10% a year since 1985.34 seconds
It’s incredible.38 seconds
I’m joined today by Troy Knuckles the current CEO, and John Jamar, the recently retired CEO.45 seconds
Welcome, Troy and John, thanks for joining us. Thanks, Trevor. Great to be here.49 seconds
And John, congrats on your wall earned retirement. Let’s go ahead and dive in.Chapter 2: What CCI Systems does today
54 seconds
Troy, can you give our listeners this 62nd overview of CCI today? Yeah. How did you. Trevor. Thanks.1 minute, 1 second
It’s been quite the evolution over the past, you know, 50 years, I’ll tell you.1 minute, 5 seconds
But today we refer to ourselves as a network integration partner, delivering innovative end to end critical infrastructure1 minute, 13 seconds
solutions for network owners, operators and utilities throughout the United States.1 minute, 18 seconds
You know, really we design, connect and implement critical infrastructure across a variety of network topologies in a number of different industries.1 minute, 28 seconds
So our heritage is in the wireline industry, started providing services to cable companies with their HFC networks, hybrid fiber coax.1 minute, 37 seconds
We specialized in in companies that deliver fiber to the home, but have broadened since then.1 minute, 42 seconds
And we do a lot of work with companies to deliver fiber to business and including in the metropolitan areas and long haul municipalities and tribes were kind of experts in that whole area.1 minute, 53 seconds
Since then, we’ve evolved into providing, you know, engineering design, site selection, easements, construction management in the wireless sector.2 minutes, 2 seconds
We provide services in the energy segment as well.2 minutes, 5 seconds
Do a ton of work in the in the data center segment.2 minutes, 8 seconds
And, and we provide services through our GuideStar division to the enterprise segment as well as a, as a managed services provider.2 minutes, 16 seconds
So we’ve evolved a great deal over the course of the last 50 years. And that’s kind of where we’re at today.2 minutes, 21 seconds
We do what we do, a fair amount of things for a fair amount of different industries. Yeah.2 minutes, 25 seconds
So I described you all as a broadband provider, but in your scope here is much broader than that. Much greater.2 minutes, 32 seconds
And you know, you also mentioned acquisitions.2 minutes, 34 seconds
I know we’re going to talk about that a little bit later in the podcast today, which is great. But we’ve also had some divestitures.2 minutes, 39 seconds
You know, we’ve we’ve had some businesses that we’ve had the opportunity to grow up and make them very successful and sell them off as a as a, as well as acquiring new ones.2 minutes, 48 seconds
But you know, really all about, you know, designing and and implementing those infrastructure solutions today.2 minutes, 55 seconds
And it’s it’s much, much more than broadband that CCI became employee owned back in 1985.Chapter 3: Why the founders chose an ESOP in 1985
3 minutes
So over 40 years ago now it’s 2026 and we’re recording this story. Can you talk to just a high level?3 minutes, 6 seconds
What originally drove that decision or what sparked that curiosity? Yeah, boy.3 minutes, 10 seconds
And this is one that I really wanted to have John answer for us. Thanks for the question.3 minutes, 15 seconds
Trevor, our original founders got into business together as partners back in the mid 50s, and they were pioneers in3 minutes, 23 seconds
what was the cable television industry, which evolved into a broadband industry that we’re we’re working in today. They had many different businesses.3 minutes, 32 seconds
Most were operating networks and cable constructors at the time.3 minutes, 38 seconds
Before it was renamed to CCI systems was the engineering and construction component of their activities as they looked at the3 minutes, 46 seconds
the exit of their careers, they sold the asset based businesses and CCI systems as a services business.3 minutes, 53 seconds
Was was something they wanted to preserve as a as their namesake and, part of their legacy.3 minutes, 59 seconds
And they thought that an Esop was a great way to put it in the hands of the employees. It’s primarily a services based business.4 minutes, 5 seconds
And so they established the company in a May 1st of 1985, in, in the Esop, at a price of $244 minutes, 13 seconds
a share, with 75% of the stock going into the Esop at that time. Thanks for that. Jaws.4 minutes, 18 seconds
In 1985, company sold, or as should say, the shareholder sold 75% over the source of Bam company. CCI goes Esop 1985.4 minutes, 26 seconds
And that really starts this whole journey here that, you know, is continuing to this day.Chapter 4: What employee ownership has meant to CCI’s durability
4 minutes, 31 seconds
And Troy, what has employee ownership meant to the long term durability of CC?4 minutes, 35 seconds
Yeah, it’s meant everything to our company and our ability to be successful over such a long period of time.4 minutes, 43 seconds
And, you know, the ebbs and flows of the businesses that we’ve been into.4 minutes, 46 seconds
And out of my my experience, I come from, you know, primarily companies that were public companies, been4 minutes, 54 seconds
with a few private companies that were private equity backed and and in both of those cases, the difference between the way that the5 minutes, 3 seconds
employees operate and the, you know, ability for companies to be successful and the ways that they make decisions and their5 minutes, 11 seconds
horizons on the, you know, the outlook of their decisions between those two are stark, starkly different.5 minutes, 18 seconds
And, you know, I can’t tell you that how I believe that employee ownership is one of, if not the primary contributor5 minutes, 26 seconds
to the ability for CCI to be successful for as long as we have.5 minutes, 30 seconds
So the Esop, would you say, you know, sort of company A of quarterly earnings, you know, and so on.5 minutes, 35 seconds
And the focus is often that private equity.5 minutes, 39 seconds
Usually you want to flip the company every five seven years or over the whole that period is Esop can be indefinite, right.Chapter 5: ESOP vs. public and private equity time horizons
5 minutes, 45 seconds
In this case we’re talking about CCI being an Esop since 1985.5 minutes, 49 seconds
So do you view the long term focus differently than those other two ownership forms?5 minutes, 55 seconds
Give the leaders more freedom to think long term?5 minutes, 58 seconds
How do we build long term economic value and keep that company’s legacy intact?6 minutes, 4 seconds
And, you know, I mean, it’s with 10% annual stock price growth over the past 40 years, obviously, this formula has worked.6 minutes, 11 seconds
But since you’ve came from these other backgrounds, do you want to compare and contrast in the focus at other ownership forms, public private equity versus these?6 minutes, 20 seconds
Yeah, that and you got to term.6 minutes, 22 seconds
And that’s the primary driver that I’ve experienced is the ability to make the right decision for the business, whether that’s short term or long6 minutes, 30 seconds
term, for the right reasons, and ultimately for the long term growth. And stability of the company.6 minutes, 35 seconds
And it’s also because we’re doing that for the benefit of our employee owners, as opposed to the benefit for, you know,6 minutes, 42 seconds
casual investors in your business or the stock price and what it’s going to do on a quarterly basis, or, you’re right, a private equity owner, which may have, you know,6 minutes, 50 seconds
significantly different ambitions for the company, either short term or long term.6 minutes, 55 seconds
So does this put your decision making in a whole different category?6 minutes, 59 seconds
And in my opinion, it it enables you to make again that right decision, you know, for the business, for the health of the business, for our employee owners.7 minutes, 7 seconds
That’s the beautiful thing about being an Esop.7 minutes, 9 seconds
If I could add to that, that answer, Trevor and Troy, we probably did a pretty good job.7 minutes, 16 seconds
I hate to say it that way, but of communicating to employees what ownership was all about and to integrate that into an intentional culture7 minutes, 25 seconds
so that the people started understanding, hey, this this really is, something that we can impact and that is so long7 minutes, 33 seconds
sustaining and, and, and that kind of understanding helped kind of bring about employee empowerment7 minutes, 41 seconds
because it was clear what, what criteria we use to make our decisions deep into the organization and then enable development of new leaders from within.7 minutes, 50 seconds
And it also enabled us to grow and expand.7 minutes, 53 seconds
Because of that, it’s our control over how we treat each other and how we treat our customers broadly into the organization.Chapter 6: Educating employees and sharing results
7 minutes, 59 seconds
How do you educate employee so they understand the value that you are creating?8 minutes, 4 seconds
It seems like a no brainer when you just look at the raw data.8 minutes, 7 seconds
So a prospective employee or even an existing one trying to understand the power of that, what does that mean to me8 minutes, 14 seconds
in terms of the long term wealth building capabilities?8 minutes, 17 seconds
And so on, and tying that back to the mission of the company so that everyone’s aligned, creating value. So how do you educate employees?8 minutes, 25 seconds
You spend a lot of time doing that.8 minutes, 27 seconds
Or is the culture at CCI such that you hire the right people and you have this ownership culture versus trying to do8 minutes, 35 seconds
any sort of radical change of the culture to try to get people that perform in a certain way. Yeah. To all see both.8 minutes, 41 seconds
So really, it started with, you know, with John doing an amazing job of creating a purposeful and intentional8 minutes, 50 seconds
employee ownership culture throughout the organization that’s really permeated. And we focus on that a lot. We educate people on that.8 minutes, 57 seconds
We start every meeting with with a certain element of our defined culture, and that’s been in place for years and years.9 minutes, 4 seconds
So, you know, I had the luxury of taking over the company, from something that John started long ago that now is absolutely ingrained in the company.9 minutes, 14 seconds
We, we we also purposely put it into our hiring packages and make sure that new employees that are joining the company know it’s it’s a differentiator for us.9 minutes, 23 seconds
And it’s one of the things that we used to recruit, you know, top level people to the organization.9 minutes, 28 seconds
So definitely educating folks on on the Esop structure, what it means to them both.9 minutes, 33 seconds
You know, both now in, in long term is is something that we do regularly.9 minutes, 38 seconds
We share our results on a couple of times a quarter.9 minutes, 41 seconds
And every time we share our results, it’s always in the context of what it means to them as as an employee owner.9 minutes, 47 seconds
So you’re sharing financials, maybe, key operating metrics ongoing.9 minutes, 52 seconds
And so in real time, all employees of CCI get to see, hey, how are we doing?9 minutes, 58 seconds
And what does this mean actually, at the individual level creates a engaged culture.10 minutes, 3 seconds
Because once people start understanding the numbers, then they understand how their individual actions contribute to that. That’s exactly right.10 minutes, 10 seconds
Very transparent on how we’re doing what we need to do, what we’re striving to achieve, and how each individual10 minutes, 17 seconds
can make day to day decisions and and impact that. Exactly right.10 minutes, 21 seconds
If I could add, we also the thing that enabled is that we, as many companies do, I wrote downChapter 7: Values, habits, and hiring for alignment
10 minutes, 29 seconds
what our values were and we did it in a group.10 minutes, 32 seconds
But at the time, about 20 over 20 of our people were all involved in that.10 minutes, 36 seconds
And then we, we, we went through a long, thoughtful session on what the habits were that brought those values to life10 minutes, 44 seconds
every day on how we all we treated each other, how we treated our customers and and how we made decisions, what we what we championed and valued and what we didn’t tolerate.10 minutes, 54 seconds
And that became a body of information, with a small, briefing, if you will, a sentence or paragraph on each of those habits11 minutes, 2 seconds
as to what they look like or why we share information, why we, we serve our customers and each other.11 minutes, 8 seconds
First, there was a sense of selflessness that was developed.11 minutes, 11 seconds
And, and then we not only brought that top of mind to employees, but we we brought that into our hiring environment.11 minutes, 19 seconds
And so recruiters ask open ended questions about those and what we we ended up getting a lot more alignment11 minutes, 26 seconds
with candidates from, a values sharing standpoint.11 minutes, 31 seconds
And I think it became, natural for people to look at how to help out their neighbor and how to help out our customer.11 minutes, 39 seconds
And, and then and then what our e sub communications committee did early on was looked at two primary objectives.11 minutes, 46 seconds
Number one was explaining to employees, especially newer employees are the Esop worked and and how it it generated,11 minutes, 55 seconds
you know, increasing earnings capacity, reducing the risk profile of the company and improving our usage of capital,12 minutes, 2 seconds
increased the overall value of ownership, something that they were now a part of.12 minutes, 7 seconds
And then the second thing that it did was it said, okay, let’s look at your particular role and here’s how you can contribute and those around you contribute and how you can help them.12 minutes, 17 seconds
And and all of that is probably more cerebrally oriented then than it is fully.12 minutes, 36 seconds
But once they they received enough e sub certificates and saw the, the the contribution building up and the value per share of building,12 minutes, 44 seconds
it really became clear that, wow, I, I have an impact and I have a duty to those around me.12 minutes, 50 seconds
So that’s kind of I think how that whole that whole cycle, came to be that the tree so accurately described, the culture is intentional.12 minutes, 59 seconds
And so anytime we talked to businesses exploring we saw a culture is going to make or break it, or you have to have a strong culture so hard to change course.13 minutes, 9 seconds
It sounds like I started with this wrong culture already to begin, was hiring the right people and also being selective about who you bring on board.13 minutes, 18 seconds
So all of that has led itself to this strong culture.Chapter 8: How ownership changes strategic decisions
13 minutes, 21 seconds
So this brings up next question does employee ownership change the way you make strategic decisions at the board level when you’re talking about strategic decisions?13 minutes, 31 seconds
Yeah, I’ll just say without question it does it puts us in a position to frankly be able to make decisions in the business today13 minutes, 39 seconds
that we know are probably not going to impact the business or show up in the way of tangible results until, you know, two, three, four years out13 minutes, 47 seconds
in certainly in my experience, in either one of the other organizational structures or enterprise structures, whether they be public or private equity backed.13 minutes, 57 seconds
You’re really not put in positions to be able to make those kinds of decisions, without significant negative consequences or just not able to make them at all.14 minutes, 6 seconds
And so it is a it is a material difference.14 minutes, 9 seconds
And those are the kinds of the right decisions that allow you to continue to be successful over the long term.Chapter 9: Balancing short-term and long-term value
14 minutes, 15 seconds
Thinking about the long term or how do you balance the long term enterprise value creation?14 minutes, 19 seconds
Again, 10% on average for the past 40 years, which you compare that to the S&P and so on. This is higher than that, you know.14 minutes, 27 seconds
So how do you balance that long term value creation versus short term pressures of trying to look good each quarter,14 minutes, 34 seconds
short term goals versus that long term enterprise value creation that we’ve seen here?14 minutes, 39 seconds
Yeah, I love this question because this gets to the heart of the benefits of being an Isa.14 minutes, 45 seconds
So in my opinion the benefits are increased.14 minutes, 49 seconds
The Esop allows you to recruit and most importantly retain some of the best leaders out there.14 minutes, 55 seconds
And when it comes to short term decision making in the here and now and we you know, we’ve got to be successful this year.15 minutes, 3 seconds
That happens at the frontline leadership level and frankly doesn’t happen without it. And right.15 minutes, 9 seconds
So we have a empowered team that, trusts each other day in and day out.15 minutes, 15 seconds
And they’re in this to, to make their own employee ownership a success. They make the right decisions every day.15 minutes, 22 seconds
And, and that’s what really drives here and now. Success.15 minutes, 26 seconds
It is if if Troy Knuckles or John Jim are in the past are making those decisions in the short term, something’s wrong. Right.15 minutes, 34 seconds
And so the Isa structure and culture is what really, you know, drives that.15 minutes, 39 seconds
And having this incredibly cohesive, powerful leadership team in place, you know, as an Esop.15 minutes, 44 seconds
And then, you know, long term, we’ve already said it, you know, being able to make the decisions that are going to that are more strategic in nature,15 minutes, 52 seconds
that are long term, make the investments now that are going to put yourself in a position for for longer term sustained growth.15 minutes, 58 seconds
And we have so many examples of that here at CCI.16 minutes, 1 second
The decisions that, you know, John, a team made before I joined the company to divest of a couple of our, you know, call it non non strategic16 minutes, 10 seconds
or more not quite aligned with where we want to be in the future.16 minutes, 13 seconds
Businesses that were very successful, financial decisions that had long term impacts were part of it.16 minutes, 18 seconds
And now going forward some of the acquisitions that we’re making that enable us to grow in the areas that we want to grow in, you know, down the road are also part of those,16 minutes, 27 seconds
you know, longer term decisions that would be very challenging to make in those other environments.16 minutes, 32 seconds
So I think the Esop structure allows you to be successful in in both of those areas, both the here and now and short term and long term infrastructure is changing rapidly. Troy.Chapter 10: Growth outlook: fiber, AI, wireless, energy
16 minutes, 43 seconds
So where do you see the biggest opportunities over the next five years?16 minutes, 46 seconds
And I know we always talk about five year planning cycles and is part crystal ball.16 minutes, 51 seconds
Where do you see the biggest opportunities right now from your seat as CEO. Yeah.16 minutes, 55 seconds
So so again I tried to shy away from the word you know telecom with our you know, future growth.17 minutes, 1 second
It really is all about you know critical infrastructure.17 minutes, 4 seconds
And so we’re certainly we certainly see tremendous growth in the traditional telecommunications are another word to use is fiber infrastructure long term.17 minutes, 14 seconds
There are some you know, major trends out there that are that are driving that.17 minutes, 18 seconds
And, you know, I would call it, you know, I and and all of the, you know, data center needs around I in the, in the immense amount of fiber needs17 minutes, 26 seconds
that I is driving both in terms of how a consumer would in terms of what they need in terms of bandwidth, as well as the I,17 minutes, 34 seconds
you know, providers, the hyperscalers, if you will, the social media providers, you know, they need a tremendous amount of capacity as well.17 minutes, 40 seconds
So there’s going to be continued growth in the telecommunications fiber segment for a long time to come. Wireless as well.17 minutes, 48 seconds
There’s no end in sight to the to the growth and opportunity and the consumption of wireless networks.17 minutes, 55 seconds
And again, I is probably one of the drivers there.17 minutes, 58 seconds
But as the world goes wireless, I had an individual that I worked for a long time ago that used this as a phrase for wireless.18 minutes, 5 seconds
Wireless is just a little less wired.18 minutes, 7 seconds
So there’s always wired infrastructure associated with wireless.18 minutes, 10 seconds
And the good news is, is we do both right when it comes to, you know, designing and implementing both wireline and wireless networks.18 minutes, 16 seconds
And then on the energy side, if you think about it, the energy infrastructure needs a communications network writing right alongside their energy infrastructure as well in every instance.18 minutes, 26 seconds
And that’s where we’re strong and and evolving ourselves to be able to do a lot of work on the energy infrastructure as well going forward for infrastructure.18 minutes, 35 seconds
And of course, fiber infrastructure as well.18 minutes, 37 seconds
We kind of see no end to the growth in those areas as well.18 minutes, 39 seconds
So we’ve got a long runway ahead of us and where we’re focused.18 minutes, 43 seconds
You read Wall Street Journal and you can’t go a day without reading something about a data center.Chapter 11: Data centers and energy convergence
18 minutes, 47 seconds
So where are you seeing a lot of the data center activities?18 minutes, 51 seconds
One and then to the energy side of your business.18 minutes, 53 seconds
You know, I think that’s at least from my perspective, that’s not necessarily new, but it’s one that I don’t know much about.19 minutes
So if you can elaborate more on that aspect of the business as well. Yeah. If all of those are converging. Right.19 minutes, 6 seconds
So you think about the what you hear about the data centers today is really all about the incredible power needs that they have. And right.19 minutes, 16 seconds
And and also, you know, where they might be located in the resources they gobble up, what you hear little about, which is which is almost as critical,19 minutes, 23 seconds
if not more critical, is the amount of fiber that needs to come into and out of those data centers to support what’s being what’s being housed inside the data center,19 minutes, 32 seconds
and then and then all of the data going out of it.19 minutes, 34 seconds
And that’s where we play it is it is just massive in terms of the the you can’t turn the data center up unless there’s somebody in there19 minutes, 41 seconds
splicing every one of those little fibers into every one of the cages inside of the data center, where the you know, where the servers reside. Right.19 minutes, 48 seconds
And so we that’s that’s where we play and, and play a critical role inside the data infrastructure.19 minutes, 54 seconds
I like to say anything low voltage inside the data center we’re handling.19 minutes, 57 seconds
And then all of the power consumption going in there.20 minutes
Again, you know, the the energy segment and communications segment are very much converging.20 minutes, 5 seconds
And we’re sort of the experts, as we call it, on both sides of the pool, energy providers, if you will have to put up or have to support20 minutes, 12 seconds
on their public infrastructure, if you will, communication networks.20 minutes, 16 seconds
And that’s a pretty significant burden and pretty significant load for them to ensure that it’s done properly and ensure that their infrastructure20 minutes, 25 seconds
and call it their their polls are not overloaded.20 minutes, 28 seconds
And, and, that’s a role that we play because we understand both sides of that.20 minutes, 31 seconds
We understand it from the communication service provider side that are looking to get their applications approved.20 minutes, 36 seconds
And we understand it from the energy side where we can be the approver for them.20 minutes, 39 seconds
But and then also moving into, you know, call it electrical energy distribution engineering, which is a natural offshoot20 minutes, 47 seconds
offshoot from from our prowess in telecommunications engineering, these data centers for those listening who I’ve never been to, one,20 minutes, 54 seconds
they’re quite a switch Tacular, saying that. So I visited one in, Vegas.21 minutes
So we have our servers at a secure data farm, and, you know, just going there and checking that out. It’s it’s such an experience.21 minutes, 8 seconds
High security, you know, you’re walking through and there’s all these big brands, you know, they’re all their servers and so on up there.21 minutes, 15 seconds
So and of course the new data centers, we’re talking about a lot of is AI driven. Right. You know that place to our AI.21 minutes, 22 seconds
But for anyone that has the option to visit one I highly recommend it because it’s it’s next level to see how these things really work and operate.21 minutes, 30 seconds
I was just in one yesterday and it’s it’s incredible.21 minutes, 35 seconds
You words can’t describe you know what what you walk into when you walk into those just massive data centers21 minutes, 42 seconds
and you know, all of the work that they’re providing, it’s pretty incredible.21 minutes, 47 seconds
So you all are really at the forefront now in terms of the energy, the the data, the connections, the IT, telecommunications connections.21 minutes, 56 seconds
There’s really powering the current economy and where things are headed.21 minutes, 59 seconds
I took a flight yesterday short one up to up to the Bay area, visited some clients, came back and I was looking.22 minutes, 6 seconds
I just it was I got on the planes looking around and everyone is watching videos on their phone. Right. You know, I was playing Sudoku.22 minutes, 13 seconds
I like to do that, you know, on the plane, you know, because it’s my time to, refresh my brain and so on.22 minutes, 18 seconds
But I was looking around and literally everyone is watching videos, and that’s not going to start. Right.22 minutes, 23 seconds
And and to your point, that speaks to both wireline and wireless, right?22 minutes, 27 seconds
It’s both of which, you know, we have a high degree of expertise to support.22 minutes, 32 seconds
Yes, I know acquisitions are part of your long term strategy.Chapter 12: Acquisition strategy and recent deals
22 minutes, 35 seconds
Obviously you’re looking for the right acquisitions and so on.22 minutes, 38 seconds
Kind of speak to the recent ones that you’ve done and you know what sort of players you think might be a good fit for CCI.22 minutes, 46 seconds
You know, as you think about the next one, three, five years. Yeah.22 minutes, 49 seconds
So the word I like to use for this is our strategy is all around acquiring market adjacencies. Right.22 minutes, 55 seconds
And so obviously there’s two ways that we can go enter into an adjacent market from what we’ve from what we do.23 minutes, 2 seconds
So we started as you, as you mentioned, in the broadband industry supporting cable companies evolved that into, you know, all things wireline telecommunications.23 minutes, 12 seconds
And so the first stack, I shouldn’t say the first one acquisition that we made a year ago was with our strategy to move into the market,23 minutes, 20 seconds
adjacency of wireless RF to be an end wireline for for the most of our lives.23 minutes, 25 seconds
And we could certainly do that organically. That takes time and investment.23 minutes, 29 seconds
Or we could find a very successful company out there providing those services today. And that’s what we did.23 minutes, 34 seconds
We were fortunate enough to get introduced to a company called Total Site Services that provides that, tower and small cell design,23 minutes, 44 seconds
construction management and site selection for the big wireless companies for you name, all all three of them out there, right. Those are their customers.23 minutes, 53 seconds
And so we were fortunate enough to bring them aboard and have them become part of CCI.23 minutes, 57 seconds
And now it’s it’s become CCI, you know, wireless arm of our business where we do.24 minutes, 2 seconds
And we’re growing that by leaps and bounds. Right. So that was a good market adjacency.24 minutes, 6 seconds
The next one that we had is kind of interesting.24 minutes, 8 seconds
So when you start looking at some of the subcontractor relationships that are wireless team uses to perform the work that they do, one of the areas that is a24 minutes, 17 seconds
is another market adjacency for us is land surveys.24 minutes, 21 seconds
And so we would hire a company to come in and do the land survey work while we’re out there selecting the appropriate site for a big tower and and making sure24 minutes, 29 seconds
the tower is going to go in the right place and that, you know, that we got everything staked and ready to go, you know, build the tower, if you will.24 minutes, 35 seconds
Well, we decided that land surveys was a significant market adjacent opportunity for us, and we actually ended up,24 minutes, 43 seconds
acquiring that subcontractor that our wireless company used.24 minutes, 46 seconds
So we brought aboard a company at just 30 days ago called Latent Surveys, based in Salt Lake City, Utah.24 minutes, 52 seconds
And there were regional land surveyor, both in the enterprise segment in the and the telecommunications segment.24 minutes, 58 seconds
And we have the opportunity to quite simply grow them nationally and allow them to do what they do really, really well and like their customers rather than regionally, nationally25 minutes, 6 seconds
and including expanding the areas that they operate in. So those are the two recent ones.25 minutes, 10 seconds
And again, it’s the whole market adjacency area that we’re going to continue to look for other acquisitions to bring more capabilities aboard a CCI going forward.25 minutes, 18 seconds
And which markets are you looking at, as you said, Salt Lake City?25 minutes, 22 seconds
Yeah, that’s just so, you know, current and current.25 minutes, 24 seconds
I would say geographically, Trevor, we’re it’s less about geographic markets and more about industries.25 minutes, 32 seconds
And so we operate nationally.25 minutes, 34 seconds
And one of the opportunities that we have is, is to bring aboard a market adjacent service.25 minutes, 40 seconds
And that might be operating regionally today because they don’t have the financial wherewithal to expand beyond that.25 minutes, 47 seconds
And that’s what we bring to the table is bring them in and take them from regional to national. So it’s less about geographies.25 minutes, 53 seconds
Well, we don’t care as much where they’re currently operating because we can operate anywhere in the United States.25 minutes, 59 seconds
We care more about the services that they provide and if those are naturally adjacent to bring aboard for CC, that’s great.26 minutes, 6 seconds
So it’s more who’s the right player, not where we’re located.26 minutes, 10 seconds
You know, because you all have expanded, you know, nationwide I know CCI started in Iron Mountain, Michigan, right.26 minutes, 18 seconds
A year back. And you all have expanded.26 minutes, 20 seconds
And we see this with our Esop clients that co Esop pay off.26 minutes, 25 seconds
These are dead and continue to grow over time. There’s kind of two pathways.26 minutes, 29 seconds
One is almost become like a Holdco structure where you start acquiring you know diversifying and so on.26 minutes, 35 seconds
The other pathway is well we’re just going to continue to grow at a, you know, a small rate, you know, whatever it is, 5% a year, something like that.26 minutes, 43 seconds
Stay independent, continue on with our single focus.26 minutes, 46 seconds
You all have really taken that latter path.26 minutes, 49 seconds
And, you know, we’re seeing that that trend out there.26 minutes, 51 seconds
That’s cool to see because when you’re talking to these companies, who else are they talking to? Maybe some strategic or private equity.26 minutes, 59 seconds
Exactly that. And and you all come in.Chapter 13: Why ESOPs appeal to selling owners
27 minutes, 2 seconds
And since you have the the Esop capital structure, I mean, that’s probably an appealing angle as, hey, the employees are going to be taken care of.27 minutes, 10 seconds
And on top of that, though, since you guys, you know, I’ve grown the value so much to, you know, you probably has to add firepower to, you know, to compete27 minutes, 18 seconds
with the other players on opportunities that you really want to.27 minutes, 21 seconds
Yeah, I’ll tell you, you hit on one of the most important things.27 minutes, 23 seconds
A lot of the business owners that we have the opportunity to talk to and, and help them out with their growth and expansion, you know, by27 minutes, 30 seconds
by making them part of CCI, what they’re really interested in is they’ve they’ve built, you know, you know, really good solid performing businesses over time.27 minutes, 39 seconds
And they really care about their employees.27 minutes, 41 seconds
And, you know, when they think about, oh, how do you know, where do we go? What’s the next step here.27 minutes, 46 seconds
You know, getting bought by a private equity company or a public company doesn’t give you the warm fuzzies that your employees are going to get taken care of.27 minutes, 54 seconds
And that’s really what an Esop offers, is it’s a it’s a great landing place for an entrepreneur, somebody who built up a business28 minutes, 1 second
to become a part of CCI systems and know that what that does immediately, it gives their employees this ownership in the company,28 minutes, 8 seconds
you know, going forward and gives them a, you know, really nice long term opportunity to be with the company.28 minutes, 14 seconds
And that’s that’s one of the things that these owners of these businesses are really looking for in. Yeah.28 minutes, 19 seconds
And that’s something we preach to me all day long is, you know, hey, have skin in the game. Yep.28 minutes, 24 seconds
Employees are going to want to work for you and they’re going to want to work harder, smarter.28 minutes, 28 seconds
And there’s a lot of new data out as well.28 minutes, 30 seconds
That’s showing that employees are becoming more aware that Esop owned companies are out there, and they’re seeking those opportunities out.28 minutes, 38 seconds
You know, obviously in tech have a lot of friends in tech, you know, West Coast here in California, they always have stock options and so on.28 minutes, 44 seconds
But the prevalence of any sort of broad based stock plan for most employers nationwide is still small, right?28 minutes, 52 seconds
You know, there’s a great 4000 private companies offshore, you know, give or take.28 minutes, 58 seconds
And then you have some public companies and age 20 or 3000. Right. So it’s still relatively rare.29 minutes, 4 seconds
So that definitely is a competitive advantage for you all having it. Is it. We we marketed it that way. That’s exactly right.29 minutes, 10 seconds
It’s you know we market it as a differentiator.29 minutes, 13 seconds
And we truly believe we proven to ourselves that it is.Chapter 14: The ESOP as a recruiting tool
29 minutes, 15 seconds
And for potential people joining CCI, how do you communicate the Esop?29 minutes, 20 seconds
I mean, there’s a lot of ways to do it, but one of the most effective ways I’ve found is just speaking about it in terms of the average benefit rate29 minutes, 27 seconds
that it’s going to kick off to them, because really it’s additional pay.29 minutes, 30 seconds
So if you have someone making 100,000 a year and they’re occurring ten, 15, 20% a value on top of that in their Esop,29 minutes, 39 seconds
you know, then they’re all in pay is really 115, 120.29 minutes, 42 seconds
And then that piece is going to continue to grow in value of seven or something grows at 7% for ten years. It doubles in value. You guys are higher than that.29 minutes, 50 seconds
You know 10% growth.29 minutes, 51 seconds
But do you find that the HR team, do they convey the power of the Esop in terms of that, a benefit rate or some other aspect30 minutes
to get people, you know, both interested and, you know, excited about that? Yeah, very much so.30 minutes, 6 seconds
It’s very much part of our recruiting process.30 minutes, 8 seconds
And again, it’s that comparative to where they might have the choice to go elsewhere.30 minutes, 14 seconds
And you know, if you go elsewhere, you you might get a 401 that the company contributes a certain percentage to and the benefit program.30 minutes, 22 seconds
And that’s about it. Right.30 minutes, 23 seconds
And, you know, you come to a company like CCI, that’s a that’s an Esop.30 minutes, 28 seconds
Not only get that same 401 K, but then you also get contributions into your Esop that you’re exactly right.30 minutes, 35 seconds
That grows and compounds, you know, over the over the long term.30 minutes, 38 seconds
And, you know, the good news is, is as opposed to A41K where your investments are significantly out of your control, you know, the Esop is one where you know,30 minutes, 47 seconds
you have the ability to actually contribute to the success of your own retirement day in and day out, and that’s pretty powerful.Chapter 15: Building an ownership culture from the top
30 minutes, 54 seconds
If a CEO listening wants to create an ownership culture, where do you think they should start?31 minutes
Well, yeah, to me, so culture is the key word there to me.31 minutes, 4 seconds
I what I’ve experienced throughout my career is culture has to be purposeful and intentional, and it has to be led from that.31 minutes, 12 seconds
And that’s, you know, the again, the fortunate thing that John has handed off to me is that purposeful and intentional,31 minutes, 21 seconds
you know, culture from the top that John was, you know, very much the leader of.31 minutes, 26 seconds
And when it starts there, it permeates throughout the organization and it becomes the culture of the organization.31 minutes, 32 seconds
So I would say it’s it’s got to start with the leader of a business.31 minutes, 35 seconds
It’s got to start with their purposeful and intention about wanting to create a phenomenal ownership structure.31 minutes, 41 seconds
And they’re committed to that and want to put the time and investment into it. Then.31 minutes, 45 seconds
Then the next question would be, how do you get that done?31 minutes, 48 seconds
I would argue that the that the Esop structure is probably the the best way to enable you to be successful with that purposeful and intentional approach.31 minutes, 57 seconds
We’ve often heard with startup founders that your top your first, not your top, your first five hires create your culture.32 minutes, 5 seconds
You know in that environment and as, as you just said, Troy has its tone at the top. Right?32 minutes, 12 seconds
So the leaders create the culture.32 minutes, 14 seconds
And it’s so hard to change culture at the end of the day.32 minutes, 16 seconds
And I know CCI, from my perspective, has had a strong culture this entire time, and that has really led to this long term success that we’re seeing today.32 minutes, 25 seconds
The growth, the awesome Esop account balance.32 minutes, 28 seconds
As you know, I know employees stick around at CCI as well.32 minutes, 31 seconds
It’s led to higher retention, which lowers your business costs.32 minutes, 35 seconds
You know, you’re not having to always search in and fill key roles. No question. Our you know our turnover is low.32 minutes, 43 seconds
Retention rate is very high.32 minutes, 45 seconds
You know employee engagement is very high.32 minutes, 47 seconds
And that is, you know, all due to that culture that’s been inside the organization, you know, forever.32 minutes, 52 seconds
And I would also argue that, you know, while it’s harder, it’s not impossible to change a culture.32 minutes, 57 seconds
And you know, if but but if you’re going to change a culture, man, it does take a lot of effort, a lot of purpose and intention, and you’re going to need a mechanism,33 minutes, 6 seconds
something that’s dramatically different in order to do that.33 minutes, 8 seconds
And again, you know, becoming an Esop might be a mechanism to help make that change, if that’s that’s what you’re setting out to do in Troy.Chapter 16: Troy’s first impressions of leading an ESOP
33 minutes, 17 seconds
Have you worked for an Esop company in the past?33 minutes, 18 seconds
I know you mentioned public companies, private equity.33 minutes, 22 seconds
So you coming in as CEO at CCI, what was your first thought when you learned about this piece of structure?33 minutes, 29 seconds
When you were interviewing with the board?33 minutes, 32 seconds
You know, going through a, hey, is this is this going to be the next home for you, you know, to, to lead the company? So what was your initial thoughts there? One and two.33 minutes, 41 seconds
Did your opinion change over time as well. Yeah.33 minutes, 43 seconds
So I’ll go in the first order I didn’t change.33 minutes, 46 seconds
I will tell you that I would not want to be in the role of a CEO at any company other than an Esop.33 minutes, 53 seconds
And, because I this is the only Esop that I’ve ever worked for.33 minutes, 58 seconds
It is going to be the last company that I work for. And the difference is stark.34 minutes, 3 seconds
And I noticed it from day one, the, you know, the culture inside the organization, the way people that people work with each other and care for each other34 minutes, 11 seconds
and as a result, care for our customers and the customer that we provide is, you know, second to none.34 minutes, 18 seconds
It’s it doesn’t exist in the public, your or you know, private equity world.34 minutes, 23 seconds
And and so I noticed it in answered your question Trevor.34 minutes, 26 seconds
You know I noticed that difference day one.34 minutes, 29 seconds
And, you know, I’m just incredibly honored to have the opportunity to be, you know, leading a Esop company after it’s been so masterfully34 minutes, 38 seconds
orchestrated by John and to continue to, you know, succeed here and grow this company going forward.34 minutes, 43 seconds
But I wouldn’t want to work anywhere else.34 minutes, 45 seconds
I really wouldn’t, and I want that’s great.34 minutes, 47 seconds
And with the high retention rates we see at CCI, and at the end of the day, I fully expect to see you try to,34 minutes, 54 seconds
you know, be a happy retired CEO, whatever the time is at at CCI, right.35 minutes
As an employer and you all have had tremendous success over the past numerous heroes.Chapter 17: Parting advice
35 minutes, 6 seconds
It’s been really fun to see that, any sort of parting wisdom that you would give listeners, you know, thinking about either employee ownership35 minutes, 14 seconds
or just growing their company right above and beyond just that, because you all have done both.35 minutes, 19 seconds
And you can, you know, it’s your prove that you can do both.35 minutes, 23 seconds
It’s not either or which anytime I talk to CEOs or leaders of privately held companies, they think you can’t do both.35 minutes, 31 seconds
You know, you can’t be as Esop company and embark on that growth.35 minutes, 35 seconds
So any sort of, you know, tips and words of wisdom out there for listeners, I’d love to invite John to answer that question.35 minutes, 42 seconds
Since he’s done it so masterfully for so many years. Yes. Thank you for that.35 minutes, 46 seconds
John and and Troy, any final parting comments here?35 minutes, 51 seconds
Yeah, I’ll just reiterate, you know, most of the things that we’ve talked about today as it relates to civically to, you know, the Esop structure,35 minutes, 58 seconds
if if one were out there and, you know, has an interest in becoming an Esop, if you’re not today, you know, I would say everything we talked about is so true.36 minutes, 7 seconds
This the structure puts you in a position to be able to make the right decisions for your business, on the right36 minutes, 14 seconds
timelines, and enables you to look out for the success of your business, you know, years and years out and other structures36 minutes, 22 seconds
just don’t put you in the position to be able to do that.36 minutes, 25 seconds
And then just being able to come to work every day with a with a team of people, no matter the size of that team, that really care about each other day in and day out,36 minutes, 33 seconds
that are there as true owners of the company and make those, you know, right decisions most every single day.36 minutes, 40 seconds
It’s just an honor to be you know, a part of that, that team.36 minutes, 44 seconds
And I can tell you that working in those other structures, that’s a rarity for, you know, that kind of teamwork environment to to happen.36 minutes, 52 seconds
Thanks, Troy.36 minutes, 53 seconds
And thank you, John and Troy for joining us today. What an amazing story. CCI systems.36 minutes, 58 seconds
It really drives home the importance of culture. Culture makes or breaks companies.37 minutes, 3 seconds
In this case, culture has enabled CCI to grow over the years, provide a very healthy side benefit for the employees.37 minutes, 12 seconds
Make an awesome home for these employees who helped in turn the company grow and thrive to what it is today.37 minutes, 17 seconds
If people want to learn more about CCI systems, where can they go? Our website is CCI systems.com.37 minutes, 23 seconds
That’s definitely the best place you can, you know, kind of read all about us past, present and future.37 minutes, 29 seconds
And you know, we’ve got all of our services.37 minutes, 31 seconds
We provide by industry and by segment on that website. That’s where I would point people to our. Thanks again, John and Troy.37 minutes, 39 seconds
Thanks everyone for joining us today, and stay tuned for future episodes.37 minutes, 42 seconds
Follow us on your favorite podcast platform, Spotify, Apple, and of course, YouTube. Thanks for having us, Trevor.The 1985 Transaction: An ESOP as a Founders’ Succession Plan
CCI Systems traces its roots to partners who went into business together in the mid-1950s as pioneers in the cable television industry. Over time they built several businesses, most of them operating cable networks and cable construction companies. What later became CCI Systems was the engineering and construction arm of that portfolio.
When the founders approached the end of their careers, they sold the asset-based businesses to outside buyers. But they wanted the services business — their namesake — to continue as part of their legacy. An ESOP offered a way to put the company in the hands of the employees who ran it. On May 1, 1985, the company was established in the ESOP at a price of $24 per share, with 75% of the stock going into the plan.
Forty years later, the company reports more than 1,000 employees and average share value growth of roughly 10% per year since the ESOP was formed. Along the way, CCI evolved well beyond its cable roots. Today it describes itself as a network integration partner delivering end-to-end critical infrastructure solutions — fiber to the home and business, wireless engineering and site services, energy-sector work, data center infrastructure, and managed enterprise services through its GuideStar division.
The Time Horizon Advantage: ESOP vs. Public and Private Equity Ownership
Troy Knuckles, CCI’s current CEO, spent his career at public companies and private-equity-backed firms before joining CCI — the first ESOP company he has worked for. His comparison is direct: the difference in how employees operate and how leadership makes decisions is stark.
In his view, the defining advantage of the ESOP is the freedom to make the right decision for the business, whether that decision pays off this quarter or four years from now. Public companies answer to quarterly earnings expectations. Private equity owners typically operate on a five-to-seven-year hold before selling the company again. An ESOP has no such clock. CCI’s leadership can make investments today that will not produce tangible results for two, three, or four years — decisions that, in Knuckles’ experience, other ownership structures either penalize heavily or prevent outright.
That freedom has practical consequences. Before Knuckles joined, CCI’s leadership divested successful businesses that no longer fit the company’s long-term direction. More recently, it has made acquisitions designed to pay off years down the road. Both kinds of moves, he notes, would be difficult under quarterly-earnings pressure or a private equity hold period.
Building an Ownership Culture on Purpose
John Jamar, CCI’s recently retired CEO, is candid that the culture did not emerge on its own. The company worked deliberately at it.
Written values and daily habits
A group of more than 20 employees worked together to write down the company’s values. The team then went further, defining the specific habits that bring those values to life — how people treat each other, how they treat customers, how decisions get made, and what the company champions and what it does not tolerate. Each habit was documented with a brief explanation of what it looks like in practice.
Hiring for alignment
Those values were built into the hiring process. Recruiters ask open-ended questions tied to them, which Jamar says produced far better alignment with candidates from the start — reinforcing the culture rather than diluting it as the company grew.
Explaining the ESOP itself
CCI’s ESOP communications committee organized its work around two objectives. First, explain to employees — especially newer ones — how the ESOP works: how it supports earnings capacity, reduces the company’s risk profile, improves its use of capital, and increases the value of ownership. Second, connect the plan to each employee’s specific role, showing how they and the people around them contribute.
Transparency with results
The company shares its results with employees multiple times per quarter, and always frames those results in terms of what they mean to employee owners. Once people understand the numbers, Knuckle says, they understand how their individual actions move them. Jamar adds that the concept becomes concrete over time: as employees see contributions accumulate and share value build in their annual statements, ownership stops being abstract.
Growth Through Market Adjacencies
CCI’s acquisition strategy centers on what Knuckles calls market adjacencies — services next to what the company already does. Two recent examples from the conversation:
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- Total Site Services, acquired roughly a year before the recording, provides tower and small cell design, construction management, and site selection for major wireless carriers. The deal moved CCI from a primarily wireline company into wireless, and the business now operates as CCI’s wireless arm.
- Latent Surveys, a Salt Lake City land surveying firm acquired about 30 days before the recording, had been a subcontractor to CCI’s wireless team. CCI plans to expand it from a regional operation to a national one.
The pattern is deliberate: find a strong regional firm in an adjacent service line, then use CCI’s national footprint and financial strength to scale it. Geography matters less than the service fit.
The ESOP plays a role in these deals, too. Many selling owners care deeply about what happens to their employees. A sale to a private equity firm or a public company offers little assurance on that front. Joining an ESOP company means employees receive ownership going forward — which, Knuckle says, is often exactly what these owners are looking for.
Looking Ahead
CCI’s leadership sees a long runway: fiber demand driven by AI and data center buildout, continued wireless growth (which still requires wired infrastructure behind it), and the convergence of energy and communications networks. But the throughline of the conversation is not the market — it is the structure. Knuckles’ advice to CEOs who want an ownership culture is to start at the top, with purposeful and intentional leadership, and he argues the ESOP is the structure best suited to making that commitment real. CCI’s 40-year record is one data point that employee ownership and sustained growth are not an either/or choice.
If you are a business owner weighing succession options and want to understand whether an ESOP fits your company, a good first step is a preliminary feasibility review. You can complete Menke’s Feasibility Questionnaire for a free preliminary analysis at https://www.menke.com/free-preliminary-analysis/, or reach our team directly at https://www.menke.com/contact-us.
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About ESOP Radio
ESOP Radio is the official ESOP podcast from Menke — where real stories of growth, succession, and long-term wealth building are told.
Hosted by Trevor Gilmore and Ben Spadt, the show features conversations and educational episodes designed to help business owners better understand employee ownership.
Disclaimer
This podcast is provided for educational purposes only and does not constitute legal, tax, investment, or fiduciary advice.
Phil DeDominicis is an ESOP strategist and M&A advisor who has guided 300+ companies through ESOP formations, financing, and transactions over 20+ years at Menke & Associates. He specializes in selling ESOP‑owned businesses to financial or strategic buyers and in helping ESOP companies acquire other businesses.
