Entrepreneurship and ownership have always been closely connected.
But for many aspiring business owners, access to capital remains the largest barrier between an idea and execution.
In Episode 21 of ESOP Radio, Trevor Gilmore speaks with Jeremy Ames, CEO and co-founder of Guidant Financial, about how entrepreneurs are increasingly using retirement assets to launch and acquire businesses through structures commonly known as ROBS ā Rollovers as Business Startups.
Guidant Financial has helped launch more than 35,000 businesses over the past two decades, giving the company a front-row seat to evolving ownership trends in Americaās small business economy.
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Video Transcript
Chapter 1: Introduction
3 seconds
Welcome to ESOP Radio.5 seconds
Today’s guest is Jeremy Ames, CEO and co-founder of Guidant Financial.10 seconds
Guidant helps entrepreneurs use their retirement savings as startup capital to launch new businesses. More on that later. We set up an Esop,18 seconds
also known as an employee stock ownership plan, for Guidant in 2025.22 seconds
There are many parallels between their mission helping people control their financial destiny and that of the power of the Esop,29 seconds
which we’re excited to explore. I’m Trevor Gilmore, CEO of Menke. Jeremy, welcome.38 seconds
Thanks, Trevor. Glad to be here. Let’s dive in. So let’s start at the beginning.Chapter 2: What Guidant Financial Does
41 seconds
What is Guidant Financial and what problem were you originally trying to solve when you launched the company back in 2003? Yeah.49 seconds
So the thing that we do today is we help people use retirement funds to buy and start small businesses,55 seconds
and then we support those businesses through the life cycle of their companies. Originally, when we started the company,1 minute
what we were helping people do was use retirement funds to invest in a number of different alternative assets.1 minute, 5 seconds
And, you know, the largest part of our business came to be this part that was helping people take those funds and invest where their retirement plans became owners and their underlying company,1 minute, 14 seconds
which you might know something about because you set up esops all around the country.1 minute, 17 seconds
We do this for sort of small business owners,1 minute, 19 seconds
and that came to be the thing we were most passionate about. And so in 2013,Chapter 3: Launching 35,000 Businesses
1 minute, 24 seconds
we split that other part of the business off and really doubled down and focused on this, core demographics. That’s what we do.1 minute, 32 seconds
We’ve helped launch 35,000 businesses over 23 years.1 minute, 36 seconds
That’s a number we’re really proud of and we keep doing it. It’s what gets out of bed in the morning. Awesome.1 minute, 41 seconds
So 35,000 plus people, you’ve helped launch your own businesses using the rollover strategy, also known as Rob’s or Rob’s.Chapter 4: What Is a ROBS Strategy?
1 minute, 50 seconds
Just in a nutshell here.1 minute, 52 seconds
So the idea here is I can take my retirement savings,1 minute, 55 seconds
use a portion of it all, in essence as startup capital for a new venture.2 minutes, 2 seconds
Yeah. What you can think of it is instead of investing your retirement plan in Microsoft or Tesla or Nvidia,2 minutes, 9 seconds
you can invest it in stock of Trevor or Gilmore Inc.2 minutes, 12 seconds
if you meet certain requirements and certain structural things. And that’s what we do. That’s what we get paid for.2 minutes, 17 seconds
We set those plans up and then we administer them,2 minutes, 20 seconds
on an annual basis to make sure they’re compliant when they’re set up and compliant every year that someone’s operating them. But essentially,2 minutes, 26 seconds
your retirement plan becomes a shareholder, becomes an investor in your business.2 minutes, 30 seconds
And so it gets to benefit from the long term value of that company, right?2 minutes, 34 seconds
Whether that’s cash going back to the shareholders, of which it would be one, or whether it’s, hey,2 minutes, 38 seconds
when you sell your company now, a big chunk of change goes back in the form of equity into this tax deferred account that then,2 minutes, 44 seconds
you know, hopefully continues to grow until you need it. Exactly. So basically you’re deferring taxes. You have access to capital. So it’s one way, hey,2 minutes, 51 seconds
instead of going out and getting an SBA loan or some sort of high interest loan to start this business, you can use your own capital. Yeah.2 minutes, 59 seconds
We really see three primary motivations for our clients that come in.Chapter 5: Using Retirement Savings as Startup Capital
3 minutes, 2 seconds
Some people do it because exactly what you’re talking about, they’re uncomfortable with debt.3 minutes, 6 seconds
They see what happens when you take a business loan and you amortize it over ten years, how much that eats into cash flow. And they say,3 minutes, 12 seconds
I’d rather just not have the pressure of debt.3 minutes, 13 seconds
I’m going to bring these funds in where I can have a little more patient capital to operate the business. We also see people who use it,3 minutes, 21 seconds
who bring it in as part of a larger leveraged transaction. So, you know, a lot of people,3 minutes, 26 seconds
what holds them back is they’ve got these golden handcuffs.3 minutes, 28 seconds
They make great money in these really advanced roles.3 minutes, 31 seconds
And so the idea of starting a company where they’re going to have one employee and they’re going to be doing these things that aren’t, you know, their natural skill set,3 minutes, 38 seconds
they’d rather buy a company that already has 25 employees and is doing a couple million in revenue,3 minutes, 42 seconds
and they can walk into something where they can leverage those natural skills. And, you know,3 minutes, 46 seconds
this can be used to bring that capital to bear for your down payment.3 minutes, 49 seconds
And then the third reason we see is people who just desire maintain control, right.3 minutes, 54 seconds
So they don’t want to have the complexities of raising money from friends and families. They don’t want the conflicting agendas, potentially, of investors.4 minutes, 1 second
And so it allows them to maintain control in a way where they get to decide.4 minutes, 5 seconds
I mean, a lot of people are leaving their corporate roles because they’re just fed up with not feeling like they have some level of control over their financial future and what they get to work on. Control?4 minutes, 14 seconds
Yeah. Control your destiny.4 minutes, 15 seconds
That’s a huge part of what we sell as well in these upside is, hey,4 minutes, 19 seconds
here’s a vehicle that lets you achieve your future dreams, right? Freedom. Choose your own exit. Yeah. For sure. Yeah.4 minutes, 27 seconds
So just out of curiosity here,4 minutes, 29 seconds
what would you say the percentages of people who use your strategy for completely starting, you know, start a brand new,4 minutes, 35 seconds
like a launching a startup versus buying an existing cash flowing business that’s for sale? Yeah. These aren’t going to perfectly line up,4 minutes, 43 seconds
but it’s about a third, a third, a third. So about a third doing startups,4 minutes, 46 seconds
about a third that are doing some kind of franchise business and about a third that are doing acquisitions. That’s great.4 minutes, 52 seconds
And have you seen any successful exits over that? You know, the past.4 minutes, 55 seconds
What is it now, 23 years in business or someone sees your strategy and then scaled it up and then hundreds. Yeah for sure.5 minutes, 3 seconds
It happens all the time. Excellent.5 minutes, 5 seconds
And that’s obviously a nice return for there for one guy is yeah I mean as you can imagine it varies significantly. Some have giant returns. Some have now like okay, return.5 minutes, 13 seconds
Some people get back a little less than they started with. I mean,Chapter 6: Why Entrepreneurs Use ROBS Structures
5 minutes, 16 seconds
it just depends on how the business operates. Right?5 minutes, 19 seconds
And how they’ve sort of strategically manage that over time. But we’ve had some clients with some, some really big wins. That’s awesome.5 minutes, 26 seconds
Okay, so that original idea of guidance and how you’re helping entrepreneurs achieve their dreams here, launching businesses by an existing cash flow businesses, what have you,5 minutes, 35 seconds
that’s obviously caught your brand.5 minutes, 36 seconds
At what point did you start thinking about ownership internally for your own employees because you started the company, you know, on a business partner or two,5 minutes, 44 seconds
you know,5 minutes, 45 seconds
and then you’ve basically held ownership and you’ve been at this for quite some time, built up a pretty large team.5 minutes, 51 seconds
You know, as we just mentioned as we talked to, I want a second ago international team.5 minutes, 54 seconds
Now what does that look like for the future.5 minutes, 58 seconds
Yeah I want to transition and why it’s so I have a primary co-founder that we started the business with.6 minutes, 4 seconds
And then we’ve got a few smaller shareholders that have been around for a long, long time for us.6 minutes, 9 seconds
We had a stock option and then a SaaS plan for a long, long time.6 minutes, 14 seconds
And what I would say about those two things is that was our intent of to create some opportunity for team members,6 minutes, 19 seconds
and we fluctuated over the years between just giving those to people in management roles versus giving grants out to everyone.6 minutes, 25 seconds
And what we found is we spent a ton of time and money and energy for something that people didn’t really value, because there’s really no market for it.6 minutes, 33 seconds
It’s like a lottery ticket that says,6 minutes, 35 seconds
maybe you’ll get something if we decide to sell within this window of time that it hasn’t expired and you’re still here. And yet it was a giant headache.6 minutes, 43 seconds
And so I knew it was something I wanted to get rid of. And for me, the real breakthrough.6 minutes, 47 seconds
I think I was listening to this podcast where somebody was talking about a biography written by about someone in Les Schwab.6 minutes, 55 seconds
If you’ve heard his story, he’s got this,6 minutes, 57 seconds
you know, he built a multibillion dollar tire company.7 minutes
But really, the foundation of what he did was he created local ownership for the people who were managing and running his stores,7 minutes, 6 seconds
and it really was the breakthrough that was there. Someone is listening to this podcast. I was like, we got to figure out a way to do that.7 minutes, 13 seconds
I mean, in a world where AI is changing things so rapidly, like,7 minutes, 16 seconds
I need people rolling all in the same direction. In fact,7 minutes, 20 seconds
I think rowing is a fantastic analogy because how fast you can go is dependent on how many people you can get in sync at the same time.7 minutes, 28 seconds
And I just recognize that for years I’ve been fighting this battle of misaligned incentives where I’m the person, as the CEO and co-founder,7 minutes, 35 seconds
that’s getting squished in the middle between shareholders who want one thing and employees who want the other thing.Chapter 7: Ownership and Entrepreneurial Thinking
7 minutes, 40 seconds
I mean, you’re seeing it in the public markets right now.7 minutes, 43 seconds
I know Bloch did this just a little while. They laid off half their team, and they said it was for AI, and their stock went up 24% the next day. Right.7 minutes, 50 seconds
That is misaligned incentives because for these publicly traded companies,7 minutes, 53 seconds
they’re valued based on the profit that they generate. And so for them, employees are just an expense line item. Right. So they actually win.8 minutes, 1 second
The owners of these companies win when people go away.8 minutes, 5 seconds
And as I was thinking about the challenges we’re facing, I’m like, I can’t have that.8 minutes, 8 seconds
Like we we have a company that’s large enough that we need all of our team members working on how to use things like AI to make their jobs better,8 minutes, 16 seconds
but why on earth are they going to work on something like that?8 minutes, 18 seconds
If they think it’s just going to replace their job and it’s going to go away?8 minutes, 21 seconds
And I think listening to Les Schwab thing was this, this realization of part of why I’ve been feeling alone is because we haven’t found a way to align those incentives in a way8 minutes, 30 seconds
where the team can win at the same time that the business is winning.8 minutes, 34 seconds
And that let me down exploring a whole lot of things of which,8 minutes, 36 seconds
you know, Esop felt like the best fit for us.8 minutes, 39 seconds
Based on what we could create in terms of alignment between shareholders, employees focused on the long term longevity of the of the business.8 minutes, 48 seconds
Yeah, yeah.8 minutes, 50 seconds
That you’re I commentary that is super interesting and obviously timely here. So I always think hey AI is a tool right.8 minutes, 57 seconds
But having ownership I mean skin in the game in your business,9 minutes, 2 seconds
you’re probably going to die in a very smart way over time. You know, employees or like, hey, how can I be more efficient, more profitable? But employees,9 minutes, 9 seconds
especially for a business like yours, business like ours,9 minutes, 12 seconds
employees are always needed because we saw the human problem, in my opinion, for sure.9 minutes, 16 seconds
Now, what I know is going to happen is that things are going to change, right?9 minutes, 20 seconds
They’re still going to be work to be done,9 minutes, 22 seconds
but the work that needs to be done is going to shift in the same way that it shifted when SaaS software came online,9 minutes, 26 seconds
in the same way it shifted when the internet hit and people could access certain resources that way. So we need people that can adapt, right?9 minutes, 34 seconds
I need people who want to think like owners. I mean,9 minutes, 36 seconds
the very thing that’s driving the success of our business is that the rewards for ownership are becoming greater and greater over time,9 minutes, 43 seconds
and the rewards for renting your labor are becoming deflated more and more over time.9 minutes, 49 seconds
And so for me, part of going down this path of an Esop wasn’t just about creating alignment for a more successful business. It’s also recognizing,9 minutes, 57 seconds
like capitalism has a problem right now that technology is exposing,10 minutes, 2 seconds
because so much of what we’ve lived through and what has made capitalism work is based on less technology and see how every sort of technological change,10 minutes, 10 seconds
whether that’s the industrial revolution or whether that’s,10 minutes, 13 seconds
you know, computers coming online,10 minutes, 15 seconds
it gives more power to capital to be able to expand and leverage things out there. And that,Chapter 8: Risk, Accountability, and Long-Term Incentives
10 minutes, 22 seconds
I think, creates more friction with the people.10 minutes, 24 seconds
You need to be doing the work and representing the company and speaking to customers in a way that reflects your brand. And to me,10 minutes, 31 seconds
this was the best answer of how to get those things back in line. And frankly, for us,10 minutes, 36 seconds
it was easier to say yes to because it’s so core to what we believe.10 minutes, 39 seconds
I mean, we spend all day, every day talking to people about how they can take ownership of their future,10 minutes, 44 seconds
how they can get out of this sort of worker mentality,10 minutes, 47 seconds
do their own thing and create some financial reward for themselves.10 minutes, 51 seconds
So now we’re just in the next stage of that evolution, which is art. Now we got to do this for our employees.10 minutes, 55 seconds
Now we got to teach them how they can be owners.10 minutes, 57 seconds
We got to give them the incentives where they can build some wealth over time. That can be game changing. Yeah.11 minutes, 2 seconds
And you look back over the numerous years you’ve been running Guidant,11 minutes, 7 seconds
I’m sure you had interest from various parties to acquire you, whether it’s private equity, strategic, you know, and so on.11 minutes, 14 seconds
Did you ever seriously entertain any such offers?11 minutes, 17 seconds
And then next, you know, obviously you you’re well aware of the Esop, you know, and decided, hey, let’s go down this path. But how did that play in, you know,11 minutes, 24 seconds
in terms of your long term vision for guidance and your own personal plan as well? You’re thinking ahead here.11 minutes, 30 seconds
You know, we’re doing this Esop and over time at all start buying more and more stock of guidance. But that’s that’s a long run.11 minutes, 36 seconds
So yeah curious about your term vision there.11 minutes, 39 seconds
And comparing to different opportunities you might have seen in the past.11 minutes, 42 seconds
Yeah I mean it’s become more relevant for me as the CEO of this company because I have some investors who have been in this for 20 plus years. Right.11 minutes, 49 seconds
And I have a co-founder who worked with me for many, many years,11 minutes, 53 seconds
but for a handful of years has been off running another company.11 minutes, 56 seconds
Right. And so there’s been more and more pressure like, hey, where’s the where’s the opportunity for us as shareholders rather than just,12 minutes, 2 seconds
hey, this business that’s operating going forward. So I knew I had to find a path for that. We’ve certainly,12 minutes, 7 seconds
you know, over the years, done a dance here or there with some people that have reached out to us, but nothing has ever come together.12 minutes, 14 seconds
And I think part of it is because,12 minutes, 16 seconds
you know, our business is so unique and different that we’re not an ideal sort of roll up.12 minutes, 21 seconds
No, nobody’s calling us because they’re like,12 minutes, 22 seconds
oh, we’re rolling up accounting practices.12 minutes, 24 seconds
And so we should just roll up guidance as part of this, or dental offices or whatever. The thing is, right?12 minutes, 28 seconds
We don’t fit these perfectly defined boxes.12 minutes, 30 seconds
And so when you think about us going out to market, if we were to go out to market,12 minutes, 33 seconds
we’re looking at probably something like private equity or maybe a family office and that kind of gives me a little bit of hives because,12 minutes, 42 seconds
you know, I’ve,12 minutes, 43 seconds
I’ve been in the entrepreneurs organization for 20 plus years.12 minutes, 46 seconds
I’ve seen plenty of people who have sold their businesses,12 minutes, 48 seconds
and I haven’t seen a lot of great experiences that people have had going down the side. Usually it’s one of two paths.12 minutes, 55 seconds
One is, you know, the P firm takes over and then they just start squeezing as much cash out of the business as possible.Chapter 9: Entrepreneurship vs. ESOP Ownership Culture
13 minutes
And then you have a business owner going, well, why didn’t I do this right?13 minutes, 3 seconds
I could have done this myself and then I’d be taking all this cash in or another is they get rolled into some type of,13 minutes, 8 seconds
you know, broader business strategy that someone’s trying to operate. And all of a sudden now they,13 minutes, 13 seconds
they lose this ability to be the vision driver for their company. Right?13 minutes, 17 seconds
And now they’re having to spend so much of their time just producing reports to go back to these private equity companies instead of working on like,13 minutes, 25 seconds
what do our customers need next?13 minutes, 26 seconds
And what do our employees need to keep expanding and growing? So if I’m being honest, when I think about those paths, I don’t have any personal interest.13 minutes, 34 seconds
Like if that was the right thing for the company,13 minutes, 36 seconds
then I’m probably not the right CEO to manage through that process. But an Esop that’s 100%13 minutes, 42 seconds
aligned with how I think and what I get excited about. And so for us,13 minutes, 47 seconds
you know, I put together a pitch to our board to say, this is how I think we can use it.13 minutes, 51 seconds
We’re not committed to 100% sale to the Esop.13 minutes, 54 seconds
We’re actually doing something called the pre funded Esop,13 minutes, 57 seconds
which is we’re starting it right now with with profit sharing and building up some balance there.14 minutes, 1 second
And then the team has a milestone that the shareholders have agreed to that when we hit this milestone, we’ll do a minority transaction.14 minutes, 7 seconds
And that’s the commitment we have today from the shareholders.14 minutes, 10 seconds
And then I think now we start to get to bring the employees into the conversation.14 minutes, 14 seconds
When we start to think about where do we want to take this long term and do we have a succession plan?14 minutes, 19 seconds
We’re excited about, with young leaders ready to step into new roles and take this company ten, 20, 30, 40 years down the line? Yeah. For those listening,14 minutes, 27 seconds
the beauty of the preferred Esop is that of getting a tax deduction, burning cash. Basically,14 minutes, 33 seconds
you accrue a contribution on your income statement, store cash over the Esop for generally up to five years,14 minutes, 39 seconds
and then use that cash in the Esop trust to buy stock.14 minutes, 42 seconds
And the beauty there is the Esop comes in real equity.14 minutes, 45 seconds
You don’t necessarily need to introduce leverage.14 minutes, 47 seconds
And you can, you know more on that later while there topic there.14 minutes, 50 seconds
But the idea here is store cash get the deduction and then use that cash to buy stock.14 minutes, 56 seconds
And in Jeremy’s situation you know it’s probably going to be, you know, something less than 50% something like that.15 minutes, 2 seconds
You know TBD I’ve been very flexible there. Yeah.15 minutes, 4 seconds
And the other thing you didn’t point out is,15 minutes, 7 seconds
you know, what makes the cost of managing an Esop go up is the stock ownership in the plan.15 minutes, 13 seconds
And so what we’ve created is a two stage path which says we’ll take on those costs when it makes sense,15 minutes, 19 seconds
because we’re ready to do a sizable enough transaction that it’s going to be worth spending the money to put that in place for the team and for the company. That’s right. Yeah.15 minutes, 27 seconds
Once to ease up on stock,15 minutes, 28 seconds
you do have the annual valuation requirement while it has cash. No annual valuation requirement there.15 minutes, 34 seconds
Jeremy, how did your employees react to the news of the Esop formation and the fact that they will become employee owners? Oh, yeah,15 minutes, 42 seconds
I think there’s people on a spectrum.15 minutes, 44 seconds
I think there are some people in our company that are super excited about it.15 minutes, 47 seconds
It’s really motivating for them to think about how this could come together.15 minutes, 51 seconds
I think there’s a lot of people who are like, wait and see, let’s see what happens.15 minutes, 54 seconds
I mean, they haven’t even seen their first statement yet.15 minutes, 56 seconds
So we did our first profit sharing in 2025 and it was a meaningful amount.16 minutes, 1 second
Hopefully they’ll be getting those statements soon and be able to see that.16 minutes, 3 seconds
We’ve already told them sort of approximately what the amount is.16 minutes, 6 seconds
But I think it’s different when you’ve got the third factor going like, hey, I’ve got that much money and it’s an account in my name.Chapter 10: Compliance and Administration
16 minutes, 10 seconds
And then I think we probably have some people who just don’t quite get it yet because, you know, I never assumed that we were going to go down the path16 minutes, 18 seconds
and we were going to set up this Esop and it was going to be magical.16 minutes, 21 seconds
All of a sudden, everyone’s going to be rowing in the same time, in the same direction.16 minutes, 25 seconds
So this is just part of a long term evolution for us.16 minutes, 29 seconds
We’ve also been investing pretty heavily in how we start to shift our culture, how we evolve from the way the, you know,16 minutes, 36 seconds
the management system that we have for the company to something that’s more inclusive,16 minutes, 40 seconds
that gives more ownership to people, that provides more transparency,16 minutes, 44 seconds
that expects more of people that are in these roles. And we’re,16 minutes, 47 seconds
you know, we’re super deep into it right now in terms of having rolled out and continuing to roll out various aspects of that.16 minutes, 53 seconds
Do you think that you sort of will lend credibility as well, especially to your sales team,16 minutes, 57 seconds
because they’re talking to people that want to go into business for themselves, become entrepreneurs, right. Use their own retirement capital,17 minutes, 4 seconds
the start of something new on their future.17 minutes, 6 seconds
Do you think being an Esop will also lend credibility to the sales people because they’re going to be employee owners as well, right. So, and it’s a process,17 minutes, 14 seconds
they’ll be able to relate and speak the same language. Not that they don’t already. Right.17 minutes, 18 seconds
But that’s just another layer of credibility.17 minutes, 19 seconds
Do you think that can come into play as well? The future of guided.17 minutes, 23 seconds
Yeah I mean maybe I mean it’s not something that we use as a marketing tool right now. I don’t know if we will.17 minutes, 28 seconds
I think the bigger impact will be not with our sales team,17 minutes, 31 seconds
because our sales team are already pretty well comped, very well trained, highly super knowledgeable people.17 minutes, 37 seconds
I think the bigger impact will come from our service teams or administrative teams,17 minutes, 41 seconds
the people who are in these more sort of detailed,17 minutes, 44 seconds
you know, work roles that are learning a whole new way to think about the world that’s more aligned with ownership,17 minutes, 49 seconds
because I think they’re going to be able to connect to our clients in a different way.17 minutes, 53 seconds
And one of our principles when it comes to our customer values is to help them see around corners. And it’s just a recognition of, hey, we do this all day, every day.18 minutes, 1 second
So we see problems long before they happen.18 minutes, 5 seconds
And our job is to help our clients see though,18 minutes, 7 seconds
so they know how the decisions they’re making today are impacting what’s going to be possible in the future.18 minutes, 12 seconds
And that’s the part really I’m most excited about is when you have owners serving owners, right. People who get it,18 minutes, 17 seconds
who can hear what a business owner is saying and read between the lines not of the question they’re being asked,18 minutes, 23 seconds
but what the person is really trying to solve so that then they can go help them figure out how to solve that underlying problem,18 minutes, 29 seconds
not the thing that they think they’re asking for that might solve it, that we all know is just going to create more issues.18 minutes, 34 seconds
I always give the analogy when I do employee rollouts for clients. No one washes a rental car, right?18 minutes, 40 seconds
And that same analogy is true with input is variety of a hired hand. Are you an engaged employee?18 minutes, 44 seconds
Owner takes time, as he’s commented earlier, takes time to get those statements behind you. Sure. The power of the Esop, you know, and so on,18 minutes, 52 seconds
but it sounds like you built the culture of guidance to basically be receptive to these often be a natural next phase for the company.19 minutes, 3 seconds
And culture is a huge component. So hard to change.19 minutes, 6 seconds
But you built this ownership culture already at the company, so that should make these off a success. Yeah, I mean, I feel like we have a long way to go.19 minutes, 15 seconds
There’s certainly aspects where I could point to that say, yeah, absolutely. All those things you’re saying are true.19 minutes, 20 seconds
But there’s meaningful work that needs to be done. I don’t think we have a school system,19 minutes, 25 seconds
a training system in general that teaches people how to think like an owner,Chapter 11: Common Misunderstandings About ROBS
19 minutes, 30 seconds
that teaches people how to problem solve in a way that is bigger than their role in their department. And, you know,19 minutes, 36 seconds
that is a shift we are in the midst of doing with our team and I think will be ongoing for years and years and years, because at the end of the day,19 minutes, 44 seconds
more than 80% of our expenses are labor. It’s people. That’s our product. So we want to make our product better.19 minutes, 50 seconds
It’s really all about investing in expanding our team and our people and getting them to stay and having them excel and win.19 minutes, 57 seconds
Yeah, lots more to do there, I’m sure. Lots more to learn,20 minutes
but we’re really excited by the continued evolution that we’ve seen from team members as they get more context, as they get more support as they can see.20 minutes, 9 seconds
Because really it’s about just helping them connect the dots between what the actions and behaviors are that they can take and how that connects to the outcomes before.20 minutes, 18 seconds
It’s like I think of our financial statement as the language of numbers, right?20 minutes, 22 seconds
And we’re trying to teach them to read this foreign language where they have to be able to translate it into this other language,20 minutes, 28 seconds
which is all based about actions and behaviors that are maybe three or 4 or 5 steps removed from the particular outcome that they’re talking about.20 minutes, 36 seconds
And so we call that line of sight.20 minutes, 38 seconds
And that’s something we’re working heavily on right now with our teams helping them understand those connections. Let’s talk about great game a business.20 minutes, 45 seconds
So a great game of business.20 minutes, 46 seconds
One of the core features or core tenets we should say is open book management.20 minutes, 51 seconds
Is that something you plan to adopt at Guidant or have you already. Yeah.20 minutes, 56 seconds
Again, I see this more as an evolution because we’ve evolved over the years to have larger and larger groups of people within the company being exposed to key data.21 minutes, 5 seconds
I think what Gigi Obi gives us is a framework specifically around the financials and to me, the most eye21 minutes, 12 seconds
opening part of working within their framework has been this concept of forward forecasting.21 minutes, 17 seconds
It’s you’re putting everyone in the organization in this position of,21 minutes, 20 seconds
hey, we’re going to do our best to try and predict what we believe is going to happen.21 minutes, 24 seconds
And what you find when you start going down that path is that,21 minutes, 28 seconds
you know, you may look at your labor line item and you go, well,21 minutes, 31 seconds
how do I know what my labor is going to be? All of a sudden?21 minutes, 33 seconds
Now you have to break it down and you realize, oh,21 minutes, 35 seconds
there are six variables that make this number go up or down in a month. And it’s overtime from this department. And it is.21 minutes, 42 seconds
How many holidays are happening from people in these various countries.21 minutes, 46 seconds
And it’s related to how many business days or whatever the the variables are like.21 minutes, 50 seconds
You have to figure out what those are and then figure out how do you know how we’re doing on those in advance.21 minutes, 56 seconds
And what it’s doing is flipping people from the sort of reactive mindset of,22 minutes
we look at something 30 days after it happens and then decide what to do to we’re projecting what’s going to happen 30 days from now and deciding what to do.22 minutes, 8 seconds
Well, that’s a 60 day difference in terms of the perspective of where we’re operating from. Yeah. Great stuff. And as you look forward,22 minutes, 16 seconds
when the Esop actually own stock,22 minutes, 17 seconds
employees are going to see a statement once a year, right?22 minutes, 20 seconds
That’s all they’re going to see a statement once a year.22 minutes, 22 seconds
What that value is can be a bit of a lag, right.22 minutes, 24 seconds
Because if I’m engaged employee owner today make tweaks, you know, that maybe decrease expenses.22 minutes, 30 seconds
You know over the long term maybe one 2% a year.22 minutes, 33 seconds
You know, I’ll really see that being reflected probably in my next year’s statement. So in that meantime, though, creating a business, you have that framework in place,Chapter 12: Why Guidant Became an ESOP
22 minutes, 42 seconds
ongoing communication dialog to show them, hey,22 minutes, 44 seconds
here’s the more real time tweaks and real time results of those tweaks versus the Esop.22 minutes, 49 seconds
You know, it’s going to be kind of just a once a year static valuation. And that’s, you know,22 minutes, 53 seconds
the private company that’s what you see is annual valuations. Right. And so on.22 minutes, 58 seconds
So I like that combination that you have great game of business for day to day ops.23 minutes, 3 seconds
Esop ownership is going to show them you know snapshot last business of the year what that value is.23 minutes, 9 seconds
And over time they will see the results of their efforts there. Yeah.23 minutes, 13 seconds
And how we’re managing that with great game of business I mean you know this well but when it comes to the valuation of a company,23 minutes, 18 seconds
our business is pretty easy to understand.23 minutes, 20 seconds
It’s going to be based off the profit that’s generated from the business. Right. When the profit goes up,23 minutes, 24 seconds
the value of the business is going to go up.23 minutes, 25 seconds
And so we spent a lot of time thinking about what is that number that aligns the things that we need to work on as a team. When we think about, you know,23 minutes, 32 seconds
the direction that we want everyone to row.23 minutes, 34 seconds
And so we invented our own metric, Trevor, and it’s called AAP. Additional annual recurring profit. And it’s a metric that we use.23 minutes, 41 seconds
So all of the things we’re focused on with our great game of business free framework are all about driving this additional annual recurring profit, right?23 minutes, 49 seconds
So like right now our team is working on a phone system switch that’s going to create a lot of long term benefits for our customers and for our team,23 minutes, 57 seconds
but it’s also going to generate $141,000 of AAP. Right. Once it’s all implemented.24 minutes, 2 seconds
Now, are we going to see all that in 2026?24 minutes, 4 seconds
No, actually we’re probably not going to see much of any of it in 2026.24 minutes, 8 seconds
When you think about the implementation costs.24 minutes, 10 seconds
But we are going to start to see that in 2027 and into 2028.24 minutes, 14 seconds
And that’s what our app helps us capture, right? It’s like, what are we building for the future? That’s a great acronym. Yeah. It’s better than a AARP right? Yeah, exactly.24 minutes, 21 seconds
Yeah. You should trademark that. Yeah. Pretty sure they have that in the back. Nice.24 minutes, 27 seconds
You know, through our discussion today, I’m just realizing for any employees, owners out there listening, those who retire with an Esop account or say your company gets acquired,24 minutes, 36 seconds
which we do see this successful,24 minutes, 37 seconds
is that companies do get acquired often it’s for, you know, decent premium and etc.24 minutes, 42 seconds
there’s probably an opportunity here to take your Esop account, roll it over,24 minutes, 46 seconds
you know, versus paying the tax and and taking the cash and actually using the Rob strategy. You know, for those who are saying, hey,24 minutes, 51 seconds
I want to become an entrepreneur because their prior Esop company either got acquired or they left the company for whatever reason. Right?24 minutes, 59 seconds
I mean, yeah, it it certainly could. And in fact, over the years we’ve had, you know,25 minutes, 4 seconds
I think three people who have started a guidance and then ended up creating their own thing off on the side.25 minutes, 10 seconds
What the Esop gives us is actually two potential paths for that, right?25 minutes, 13 seconds
Somebody can build up some assets in a retirement based plan.25 minutes, 16 seconds
And yeah, maybe at some point in the future they want to go and roll that and use that to start a company.25 minutes, 20 seconds
But there also maybe an opportunity for them to do that within guidance.25 minutes, 24 seconds
Right. When I think about how we’re going to need to expand over time.25 minutes, 27 seconds
But we did a spin out of a company about six years ago.25 minutes, 30 seconds
That company now does $30 million in revenue,25 minutes, 33 seconds
but we’re tapped out now because we had two co-founders, right? We had two entrepreneurs,25 minutes, 36 seconds
and now we’re both running two separate companies that are operating.25 minutes, 40 seconds
So what the Esop does is sort of forces this dynamic of retraining people on how to become owners and how to think like owners.25 minutes, 47 seconds
And when they get to the point of development, the question is, what opportunities can we put them on? I mean, over the years,25 minutes, 52 seconds
we’ve had probably 10 or 15 ideas of things that could be completely separate businesses but highly connected to what we do right?25 minutes, 58 seconds
Something where we either have a built in pipeline or we’re the first customer of something that we need. That was the example. The business we spun out,26 minutes, 5 seconds
we became, you know, Guidant became the first customer of this business,26 minutes, 7 seconds
and then it went on to bring in other customers.Chapter 13: Building Ownership Culture
26 minutes, 10 seconds
That’s a way that we can grow this company for the people in the Esop,26 minutes, 13 seconds
but also give people an opportunity to create an ownership path even above and beyond the Esop,26 minutes, 18 seconds
if they’re ready for that sort of level of development. So for business owners listening,26 minutes, 22 seconds
especially those who believe in ownership as a philosophy, Jeremy,26 minutes, 26 seconds
what advice would you give them when considering an Esop?26 minutes, 29 seconds
I think the biggest thing is that incentives matter,26 minutes, 33 seconds
but they’re not the only thing that matters. If your expectation is, hey,26 minutes, 36 seconds
I’m just going to get the incentives aligned with everyone, and then all this stuff is magically, magically going to fall in place.26 minutes, 41 seconds
I think you’re going to be sadly mistaken because, you know,26 minutes, 45 seconds
this is not something that people walk into most of their roles with.26 minutes, 48 seconds
It’s going to take effort from you to think about how you want to involve your team,26 minutes, 53 seconds
because you can’t expect someone to exercise ownership without context, without visibility, without feedback into,27 minutes, 1 second
hey, this decision I’m making,27 minutes, 2 seconds
what’s the actual impact to the business like? I’m already seen it.27 minutes, 5 seconds
This whole phone system switch didn’t come from me.27 minutes, 8 seconds
It came from us going down this path and exposing people to the numbers. And then someone going, wait a second.27 minutes, 13 seconds
We have like these four different softwares we pay for.27 minutes, 15 seconds
Like, what if we could find one software that does all of this? That’s what’s happening, right? It’s that we’re taking,27 minutes, 20 seconds
you know, we’ve taken all these things that we’ve aggregated over time and we’re,27 minutes, 24 seconds
you know, somebody doing the work to combine these into one software that’s going to give us a better overall solution at a better cost when you look at it in aggregate.27 minutes, 32 seconds
And that didn’t come from top down, Jeremy saying, hey guys, here. I think it’s an opportunity.27 minutes, 35 seconds
So I’m seeing it as people get more exposure to the numbers and understand what’s behind it. They’re learning the business. And, you know,27 minutes, 42 seconds
we get to see this on a small business owner scale as well because we’re helping people start companies.27 minutes, 47 seconds
And one of the biggest risks I see with people when they start these small businesses is how much time do you have to learn the business? Because every business is different.27 minutes, 54 seconds
I don’t care how smart you are,27 minutes, 56 seconds
it’s going to take you time to figure out like,27 minutes, 58 seconds
what is the secret sauce in this business?28 minutes
What is the marketing that makes sense versus the marketing? That’s just a waste of money. You know,28 minutes, 4 seconds
what should my labor ratios be and what do I do if they’re out of whack? I mean, these are things. As a business owner,28 minutes, 10 seconds
you typically learn by falling on your face.28 minutes, 12 seconds
And I can tell you all sorts of stories about lessons that have cost me hundreds and hundreds of thousands of dollars, that are mistakes I have made.28 minutes, 18 seconds
But what I’m seeing is this framework we’re working on of trying to teach our team. It’s helping them learn it. We faster than I was able to learn it. That’s great.28 minutes, 25 seconds
So in that example I am software free.28 minutes, 27 seconds
We all business owner executive sees that right. You know software creep is a real thing.28 minutes, 34 seconds
So in a simple example hey how do we eliminate all these duplicated software subscriptions. We have unified around one save costs.28 minutes, 44 seconds
And it’s those small changes that can drive the bottom line in a very powerful way. Yeah. Then they just stacking up on each other.28 minutes, 51 seconds
Yeah. So that thinking exactly that,28 minutes, 53 seconds
once you see that thinking start to take hold, it’s the moment as a leader like okay this is awesome 100%. What if we had 275 people all doing this?Chapter 14: Financial Empowerment Through Ownership
29 minutes, 2 seconds
Exactly. You know what we accomplish. Yeah. It’s not you top down in an email saying, hey everyone, find a way to save, you know, whatever it is,29 minutes, 9 seconds
I think your bucks for me to spend,29 minutes, 10 seconds
you know, or whatever, it’s it’s motivated people thinking like, oh, it was figuring out, hey,29 minutes, 17 seconds
how can I help the company be more efficient? And not only that, be Trevor.29 minutes, 21 seconds
Yes, it’s going to turn into ARP, is going to turn into profit for the business is going to create more value for the business.29 minutes, 27 seconds
But also the person who’s driving this project and the team of people that she’s working with, like it’s confidence building for them. They have gone out, they’ve seen a problem.29 minutes, 35 seconds
They figured out a different way to solve it.29 minutes, 37 seconds
Like that’s how you grow leaders in a company and that’s what we need more of,29 minutes, 41 seconds
especially when you think about AI coming online, right.29 minutes, 44 seconds
It’s going to get rid of most of those jobs where it’s just like pushing one line of code or data into one other place. So the question is,29 minutes, 51 seconds
what are you going to have people do well?29 minutes, 53 seconds
You need people that are out there creating value. They’re solving real problems.29 minutes, 57 seconds
They’re working with your customers to help them get what they really need and understand what the next thing is that they need. Yeah, this is all music to my ears.30 minutes, 4 seconds
Awesome stuff. Jeremy. Hey, thanks again for your time.30 minutes, 7 seconds
Any parting words of wisdom to our listeners? I mean, get started.30 minutes, 11 seconds
I’m a big fan of the great Game of Business framework. If you want to check something out.30 minutes, 16 seconds
I’m a big believer in business that when you’re doing something for the first time,30 minutes, 20 seconds
starting from scratch is a really painful, expensive, long process.30 minutes, 23 seconds
It doesn’t mean the great game of business is a perfect fit for everyone for all time.30 minutes, 27 seconds
But you know, we had the same experience with iOS, the entrepreneur operating system, where we brought that into the business. And then as we got experience with it,30 minutes, 34 seconds
we started to evolve it to be our own thing that worked better for our company.30 minutes, 37 seconds
And I feel the same about this when it comes to the idea of evolving to a culture of ownership,30 minutes, 41 seconds
because iOS is designed to operate a smaller business, right?30 minutes, 46 seconds
But when you’re talking about one where you want employee owners,30 minutes, 49 seconds
like you need a different structure than iOS, you can’t run iOS with 275 people. It just doesn’t work. So you scale out. Basically, you’re at the point where, hey,30 minutes, 57 seconds
we have a lot of clients running iOS. Yeah, the smaller, you know,31 minutes
the smaller end, like hundred hundred and 50 employees in that range,31 minutes, 4 seconds
I would consider go for that is just to say I see it as an evolution of iOS from a sort of iOS31 minutes, 11 seconds
is like how you take your management team and create an operating system based on them, and that was good for us. It helped us be way more efficient. But gobby is different now.31 minutes, 19 seconds
It’s like,31 minutes, 20 seconds
how do you take that out to the broader team and disperse ownership and accountability even more broadly within the company?31 minutes, 26 seconds
And I think it’s a great thing to pair with.31 minutes, 29 seconds
I wish there were actually more frameworks out there like that, because with iOS,31 minutes, 32 seconds
there’s a ton of other frameworks that people have come up with for how to manage your business, everything from Rockefeller habits to, you know, things like that. But, they’ll be coming.31 minutes, 40 seconds
I suspect this is a shift that’s going to gain more and more ground, because just politically,31 minutes, 45 seconds
you’re seeing this significant gap between the haves and the have nots.31 minutes, 49 seconds
We’ve got to create a better way for people to participate in the economic gains they’re creating.31 minutes, 56 seconds
And I love doing it without it being a handout, because the Esop isn’t a handout, right? It’s not it’s not a here free money.Chapter 15: Long-Term Ownership Trends
32 minutes, 4 seconds
It’s like if we don’t create the value then the value isn’t there for you.32 minutes, 7 seconds
So we gotta all get on the same page about driving it together. Exactly. That’s excellent point.32 minutes, 12 seconds
And I tell the to skeptical prospects all the time on you know it sounds like a free handout. It’s like no,32 minutes, 18 seconds
you get a free handout as if you’re keeping people employed who shouldn’t be. And then they get, you know, he saw all occasions and so on.32 minutes, 25 seconds
That’s that’s what a free handout as we have an engaged employee.32 minutes, 30 seconds
But that goes back to the point of that’s why you have to impair.32 minutes, 33 seconds
You have to pair the incentive with the structure of how you operate your business. Because if it’s just the incentive,32 minutes, 39 seconds
then you do run the risk that it could just be a handout that you’re just giving away equity.32 minutes, 43 seconds
And I would tell you, people have lots of strong opinions when it comes to retirement plans.32 minutes, 47 seconds
I know that not only because of what we do, right?32 minutes, 50 seconds
Lots of people have opinions about whether you should touch your retirement funds.32 minutes, 52 seconds
But even when we were considering an Esop, Trevor,32 minutes, 54 seconds
I can’t tell you how many people were like, you shouldn’t do that. Lots of people. Here’s how I knew that.32 minutes, 59 seconds
It was like at a robust stage as my wife came to me and she said, honey, are you sure an esops the right solution for you guys? And I’m thinking,33 minutes, 7 seconds
I’ve been researching this for nine months, right?33 minutes, 9 seconds
I’ve talked to my wife about at a very high level. She kind of knows what’s happening.33 minutes, 12 seconds
But she had talked to one of her friends who knew someone who was considering an Esop at some point.33 minutes, 17 seconds
And now my wife’s coming back to me and she’s like,33 minutes, 20 seconds
shouldn’t you think about phantom stock equity or some of these other things? And it was coming from a place of of, you know, good hearted,33 minutes, 26 seconds
like wanting the best for me and wanting the best for the company.33 minutes, 29 seconds
But it was just enlightening to see that there are lots of people who have perspectives about various aspects of this,33 minutes, 36 seconds
but maybe don’t have all the context for how it operates or how it can operate. Because, as you know, Trevor,33 minutes, 42 seconds
even the way that we’re implementing these Esop is very different than how probably most people implement an Esop.33 minutes, 47 seconds
So there’s always lots of confusion when I talk to people about it because they’re thinking like,33 minutes, 51 seconds
I’ve already given away equity in your company. I’m like, no, that’s not what we did. Yeah, exactly. We’re doing profit sharing,33 minutes, 56 seconds
but there’s actually a milestone that our team has to hit.33 minutes, 59 seconds
So there’s no guarantee that we’re getting to this minority transaction. We have to earn it.34 minutes, 3 seconds
That’s what the shareholders have committed to.34 minutes, 4 seconds
And the shareholders are committing to this because they know when they sell to an Esop,34 minutes, 8 seconds
it’s going to be of a valuation potentially, than selling to a private equity group or something. But,34 minutes, 14 seconds
something that comes with some built in tax benefits.34 minutes, 16 seconds
And my whole pitch to the shareholders,34 minutes, 19 seconds
to the board was, listen, profit sharing here, if we do a 20% profit share,34 minutes, 23 seconds
the real cost to you as shareholders is maybe 12%, 12.5%.34 minutes, 28 seconds
So my bet is that we can grow the business more than that. And that at the end of the day,34 minutes, 33 seconds
you’re going to win win on this,34 minutes, 34 seconds
because what we’re putting in place is going to help this business grow more.34 minutes, 37 seconds
And so the value of what you’re going to get your piece of the pie is going to be a little bit less, but it’s going to be a much bigger pie. Exactly. The sweat equity component, you know, that should definitely pay off.34 minutes, 46 seconds
You know, it’s you’re building the building blocks here for that future guidance and these small tweaks.34 minutes, 51 seconds
You talked about the employees who are managing the software spend being more efficient.34 minutes, 55 seconds
You know, so on all that it’s going to translate to ROI. Yeah.34 minutes, 59 seconds
One thing at the Esop, I think as an industry as a whole,Chapter 16: Final Thoughts
35 minutes, 4 seconds
we do a pretty poor job at showing all the options.35 minutes, 8 seconds
You know, the option that you’re doing in the pre fund, we do that. A lot of other firms aren’t doing that. The big focus is on 100% to the user.35 minutes, 17 seconds
It’s like all or nothing.35 minutes, 18 seconds
Yes I and it’s like that works for some companies. Not all Esop is a very flexible tool. Yeah.35 minutes, 23 seconds
And you know we know because we work in retirement plans all day.35 minutes, 26 seconds
And there’s still a learning curve trying to figure out how all the various aspects of it work. Exactly. All that code out there, right. Yeah.35 minutes, 33 seconds
Jeremy, how can people find you if they want to find me personally? You can find me on LinkedIn. You’re welcome to DM me.35 minutes, 37 seconds
I’m happy to be supportive of any way I can,35 minutes, 40 seconds
especially if somebody’s considering something around the employee ownership.35 minutes, 43 seconds
This happens to be something that’s kind of near and dear to my heart.35 minutes, 46 seconds
I think we need an ownership revolution in our country,35 minutes, 49 seconds
where more people are given the tools and the ability to pursue ownership and show you what they can do.35 minutes, 56 seconds
More people invest in our economy and what they’re trying to create. And so if I can be helpful,36 minutes, 1 second
send me a message and if you want to check out our company, we’re just Guidantfinancial.com. You can learn more about what we do.36 minutes, 6 seconds
We got tons of educational materials of I starting a business. Is ever something on your mind. Thanks again, Jeremy, for joining us today.36 minutes, 12 seconds
And thanks everyone for listening to ESOP Radio.36 minutes, 16 seconds
Check us out on LinkedIn making group Esop radio. Myself, Trevor Gilmore, CEO of Menke. Also check out our Spotify,36 minutes, 23 seconds
YouTube and Apple Channels website.36 minutes, 25 seconds
Menke.com has a lot more information on Esops. Have an awesome day everyone! Take care.Why It Matters
For many entrepreneurs, the biggest obstacle is not the business idea itself.
Itās access to capital.
Traditional financing can be difficult for first-time owners, especially for individuals looking to acquire or launch small businesses without institutional backing.
This episode explores an alternative path ā using retirement assets as investment capital through properly structured rollover arrangements.
More importantly, the discussion focuses on the broader idea of ownership and how it changes long-term thinking.
How ROBS Structures Work
Jeremy Ames explains how ROBS structures allow individuals to use retirement assets to invest in their own operating businesses rather than traditional public market securities.
In simple terms, retirement funds can become startup or acquisition capital under specific legal and administrative structures.
The episode avoids treating the strategy as a shortcut or gimmick.
Instead, the conversation emphasizes:
- Proper structure and administration
- Long-term business planning
- Compliance and governance considerations
- The realities of entrepreneurial risk
The discussion frames ownership as both a financial and operational responsibility.
Ownership Changes Behavior
One of the strongest themes throughout the episode is how ownership changes decision-making.
Founders think differently when they have:
- Personal capital invested
- Long-term accountability
- Direct alignment with business outcomes
Many of these same characteristics appear inside successful ESOP companies.
Employees in ownership-driven cultures often begin thinking more like long-term stewards of the business rather than short-term participants.
That alignment creates different incentives around performance, communication, and long-term value creation.
Why Guidant Became an ESOP Company
The episode also explores why Guidant Financial chose to become an ESOP company.
For a business centered around entrepreneurship and financial empowerment, employee ownership represented a natural extension of the companyās philosophy.
The decision reflects a broader trend occurring across private business markets:
- Owners seeking succession alternatives
- Greater focus on alignment and culture
- Long-term continuity over short-term exits
- Increasing interest in ownership-based business models
The conversation positions ESOPs and entrepreneurial ownership as closely related concepts built around long-term alignment.
The Broader Ownership Trend
Across private businesses, ownership is increasingly becoming part of the strategic conversation.
Business owners are evaluating:
- Succession planning options
- Employee retention strategies
- Long-term independence
- Wealth creation beyond compensation
This episode highlights how ownership structures influence both financial outcomes and company culture.
Whether through entrepreneurship or employee ownership, the underlying principle remains similar:
People think differently when they think like owners.
Key Takeaway
The most effective ownership structures are not simply financial transactions.
They create alignment.
This conversation with Jeremy Ames provides a practical perspective on how entrepreneurship, retirement capital, and employee ownership intersect around a common idea:
Long-term ownership changes behavior, incentives, and ultimately outcomes.
Considering an ESOP?
If you are evaluating succession options in the next 1ā5 years, an ESOP may provide:
- Liquidity with continued involvement
- A tax-efficient ownership structure
- Long-term continuity for employees and clients
No cost. No obligation.
About ESOP Radio
ESOP Radio is the official ESOP podcast from Menke ā where real stories of growth, succession, and long-term wealth building are told.
Hosted by Trevor Gilmore and Ben Spadt, the show features conversations and educational episodes designed to help business owners better understand employee ownership.
Disclaimer
This podcast is provided for educational purposes only and does not constitute legal, tax, investment, or fiduciary advice.
Phil DeDominicisĀ is an ESOP strategist and M&A advisor who has guided 300+ companies through ESOP formations, financing, and transactions overĀ 20+ years at Menke & Associates. He specializes inĀ selling ESOPāowned businessesĀ to financial or strategic buyers and inĀ helping ESOP companies acquire other businesses.
