What does an ESOP look like from a founder’s perspective?
In Episode 17 of ESOP Radio, we hear from a business owner who started with just $2,000, built a growing company, and ultimately transitioned to employee ownership.
Building from Scratch
The company began with minimal capital and no outside financing.
From those early days working out of a house, the business grew into a multi-location operation—driven by hands-on leadership and operational focus.
The ESOP Transition
Like many founders, the transition introduced new dynamics:
- A trustee relationship
- Governance structure
- Increased focus on financial performance
Initial concerns—particularly around control—proved to be largely unfounded.
As discussed in the episode, the trustee relationship became collaborative rather than intrusive.
A Shift in Leadership Mindset
One of the most important changes was personal.
The ESOP forced a shift from:
- Day-to-day operations
→ to - Long-term strategy and value creation
As the founder noted, this focus on share value and strategic thinking was something he wished he had embraced earlier.
Governance and Accountability
The introduction of a trustee and formal structure brought:
- Clear accountability
- Regular financial communication
- A stronger focus on performance
Rather than limiting flexibility, it created clarity.
Key Takeaway
An ESOP is not just a transaction.
It changes how a founder:
- Thinks
- Leads
- Measures success
🎙️ Listen to the Episode
Video Transcript
Chapter 1: Introduction & Guest Overview
3 seconds
Hi everyone. Welcome to the official ESOP Radio.6 seconds
We are excited to have Art Hoover join us today. Art is a CEO and co-founder of matrix HG. Matrix is based in Concord,15 seconds
California in the San Francisco Bay area.17 seconds
We helped Art and his team matrix become 100% Esop employee owned. In 2023,24 seconds
they manage the Hvac systems of large commercial and institutional buildings throughout the Bay area. Art also races cars on the track.32 seconds
There are many parallels between racing and the long term focus of Eastside business ownership, which we will explore.38 seconds
I’m Trevor Gilmore, CEO of Menke Without further ado, let’s dive in. Thanks for joining us here.Chapter 2: Considering Exit Options vs. ESOP
48 seconds
My travels always good to see you. Thanks for having me. Before choosing an Esop.52 seconds
What exit pass did you seriously consider and what ultimately ruled out a third party or private equity?59 seconds
Well, to me also, there’s,1 minute, 1 second
you know, as when you’re running a business,1 minute, 2 seconds
you’re always running the business and you start thinking long term, like, okay, well, what does this really look like for us? It’s reality.1 minute, 8 seconds
There was there’s a lot out there, but there’s there’s a lot of unknowns.1 minute, 12 seconds
And the first time I went to a new software,1 minute, 14 seconds
I thought, let’s go look at this easy thing. And I went to,1 minute, 16 seconds
and a conference with a bunch of trainings putting it on. It was so bad I left early. I had no idea what they’re talking about.1 minute, 23 seconds
I couldn’t understand what they’re saying. I’m like, this is way too complicated for me.1 minute, 26 seconds
And then we went, met with a couple of big conglomerates and a large, company,1 minute, 32 seconds
and they explain to me how they do things and how the company value,1 minute, 36 seconds
I have to stay on the ground for multiple years,1 minute, 38 seconds
and then they’re evaluate the company based on how we do that. Do not excite. We ran this probably for 24 years.1 minute, 46 seconds
The last thing I wanted to tell me, tell me what to do and how to do it. I would struggle with it.1 minute, 51 seconds
The other thing is we have at least now 21 years with us, and they put we’ve worked with as far as we have to give them. Yeah.2 minutes, 1 second
You know, our donors and the Esop gave us that option. Oh, so when you started the business, what, 2002? Yes.2 minutes, 6 seconds
So you shut down many different options, pros and cons, zeroed in on. Hey, matrix. Better off independent. You know a great thing going great team.2 minutes, 14 seconds
Let’s take it to the next that right. You know.Chapter 3: Why Private Equity Didn’t Make Sense
2 minutes, 17 seconds
Well one of the things when you’re looking at it is when you sell you you sell your company and you sell to you.2 minutes, 22 seconds
Like for us we have Honeywell or there’s carrier training and you’re somebody they’re buying these companies up and they look for profit. They don’t really care about people.2 minutes, 30 seconds
They don’t care about anything.2 minutes, 31 seconds
They want to know how much cash you generate. That’s it. Being 24 years, I’ve hired, trained these people. They put a lot of work in. So I want to see them.2 minutes, 41 seconds
If we support the company. To one of those people,2 minutes, 42 seconds
I think we got the company dissolved pretty well, like we know or whatever it is. And later on,2 minutes, 51 seconds
when we are at the beginning of the game, we have a lot of great clients.2 minutes, 55 seconds
We have just the employees we felt like we ordered. And and honestly, you got,3 minutes, 2 seconds
you built there’s a good price for very a better than what we would have got. But private work. That’s right. And it’s killing the business.3 minutes, 8 seconds
I mean, you all started from 0 in 2002. All the data, serious revenues, built a team.3 minutes, 14 seconds
So the idea here is keep it going independent and Esop being a fair market value.3 minutes, 19 seconds
Got you a price that when you weigh all the tax benefits, you not weighed what you would have got in the open market, you know, safe if you took the business to market,3 minutes, 29 seconds
sold it to one of those competitors, sold it to private equity. So it was the Esop. There’s good or bad, right? Well, everything. Well,Chapter 4: ESOP Benefits: Value, Taxes & Continuity
3 minutes, 36 seconds
once we met with you guys and realized, okay, well, this is what the value works.3 minutes, 40 seconds
I started looking at, the tax incentives for the owners. Right. So 100%3 minutes, 45 seconds
and, and there’s complications with everything, like there’s a wall you have to deal with. But we’ve been learning. It’s a learning process for sure.3 minutes, 53 seconds
But I feel it’s been a very good traditional day. We went and you saw nothing changing, which would help me.4 minutes
States running these same all the better investing at this point.4 minutes, 4 seconds
And that was actually really nice to business continuity. That’s kind of a,4 minutes, 11 seconds
underrated aspect of these sort of transactions, you know, because you think, hey, I’ve seen business sell.4 minutes, 17 seconds
The big focus that people pay attention to is the overall price, right. And so on.4 minutes, 22 seconds
This is continuity keeping the team in place, companies, operations continue the board. You know maybe we can talk about that. You know,4 minutes, 29 seconds
later possible governance changes, you know independent directors and so on.4 minutes, 33 seconds
But overall the company is still staying as it is intact. Operations are continuing as normal.4 minutes, 39 seconds
There’s no shakeup not what changed that what I get I run it exactly the same. The only two different things actually.Chapter 5: Leadership Shift: Thinking Like a CEO
4 minutes, 48 seconds
The interesting thing that changed was how I saw one quarter to end approach.4 minutes, 52 seconds
That’s a little bit is no, I’m Steve Yoder. I’m not I’m not not the owner anymore. I’m saying you and me, I have to drive to price. That’s my job.5 minutes
And that kind of had to change my mental focus a little bit from just being founder and running and putting fires out to like, I got to drive stock price. Like,5 minutes, 8 seconds
how was change your mindset and kind of helping you transition the company from bottom pop shop, where you don’t need age.5 minutes, 16 seconds
And it’s like,5 minutes, 17 seconds
okay, well, when are we giving you the hard time? We’re working 255 now. I would start looking farther out bigger.5 minutes, 23 seconds
So change in mindset to co-founder were so many hats. You see it on post transaction as a CEO.5 minutes, 31 seconds
So that’s a new title. I mean your role you know doesn’t change.5 minutes, 36 seconds
You know the CEO but your focus now stock price right is now. Yeah this annual valuation.5 minutes, 41 seconds
And it is it’s more of a strategic focus probably than before where your focus on growing the business.5 minutes, 47 seconds
And then as a co-founder in the beginning probably sweeping the warehouse, you’re hiring people, you know, doing everything.5 minutes, 55 seconds
And now its CEO seat focused very much on long term strategy, share price.6 minutes, 1 second
So that’s probably a fun focus for it once it’s changed things right. I’ve had to like, change my focus,6 minutes, 6 seconds
but it was like I probably should have been doing this ten years ago, 15 years ago.6 minutes, 10 seconds
And it kind of I get almost mad about stuff like, why wasn’t I thinking like that? So it’s actually helped me,6 minutes, 15 seconds
and I think it’s can help the company in the long run. When we first started the company, we put $2,000 in.Chapter 6: From $2,000 Startup to 200 Employees
6 minutes, 20 seconds
That was our only money we ever put in the company. We never borrowed money. We put $2,000 in, worked out of my house, and now we have two occasions. And like,6 minutes, 28 seconds
I think we have about 200 employees.6 minutes, 29 seconds
And I would say about 140 of the employees were union.6 minutes, 33 seconds
They’re not part of the you saw the other 60 are union are nonunion and they are card data.6 minutes, 39 seconds
But it’s now like you know, it’s allowing me to give back to them.6 minutes, 45 seconds
And that’s, that’s actually pretty fulfilling.6 minutes, 48 seconds
And I remember that back from when we were doing the initial assessment,6 minutes, 52 seconds
modeling the $2,000 investment as I am when you double check this, is that right? You know,6 minutes, 57 seconds
and so I don’t know if it’s kind of the start, that’s for sure. Absolutely. Yeah. So good ROI there. Yeah of course sweat equity right.7 minutes, 5 seconds
Yeah. No it was definitely sweat equity. You know we put in a lot of time.7 minutes, 10 seconds
We still put in long time because you care like I don’t want to just bail on these guys. I’m part of the use up. What makes it work, though?Chapter 7: Importance of a Strong Management Team
7 minutes, 16 seconds
You want to have a management team that’s ready to replace the word. And.7 minutes, 20 seconds
And they can’t run the company without you. But that’s the way this works.7 minutes, 24 seconds
If you don’t have a good team beneath you, it doesn’t work unless you’re sure you want to stay for a long time.7 minutes, 28 seconds
That’s critical for an easy transition is the team you need that rock star,7 minutes, 34 seconds
solid team in place and if you have one partner or two partners that are also the brain trusts, like it’s not going to work, right? Yeah.7 minutes, 42 seconds
If I’m if I did all the decisions without the company, the company at that point, I had a lot of great people here,7 minutes, 49 seconds
but they’ve never really dealt with all the banking. And I was people for that.7 minutes, 52 seconds
But all the other stuff didn’t never steam.7 minutes, 55 seconds
So we’re now like convenient to start understanding the business side of of the company. And that’s,8 minutes
that’s been interesting to watch because it’s one of the things we’ve always wanted from like quarters.8 minutes, 5 seconds
It’s hard to think like an owner of getting paid like an order or, dealing with all the other stuff. So now it’s giving them,8 minutes, 13 seconds
you know, some more growth for them.8 minutes, 14 seconds
But the goal is to let them make more money. And I told them,8 minutes, 17 seconds
as you start scaling this thing up to be more like, I want to see this in your few years. And now the deal happened,8 minutes, 24 seconds
using round numbers three years ago, how was the team handling it now? Obviously in the beginning, it’s a very intangible. Okay.Chapter 8: Employee Experience & Ownership Mindset
8 minutes, 33 seconds
What does this mean? And now we’re a couple of years in.8 minutes, 35 seconds
They’ve seen a few Esop accounts, statements. And you know, especially on the finance side, they understand okay,8 minutes, 42 seconds
the impact of the growth, you know and how it all works.8 minutes, 45 seconds
So how is that, you know, in terms of excitement retention and then even recruiting,8 minutes, 51 seconds
the fact that you all have this skin in the game. I think on the recruiting side,8 minutes, 54 seconds
it is something most people it’s hard to explain. He’s not a new recruit. It’s hard.8 minutes, 58 seconds
But people have been here for three years. They’re still trying to figure it out.9 minutes, 2 seconds
It’s a very simple step and once you understand it, recruit something going, hey,9 minutes, 6 seconds
once you get better at it after six months or whatever we said in the contract,9 minutes, 9 seconds
you’re now part owner and you start getting three shares of a company. It’s a retirement account for them. You know, it’s a good thing.9 minutes, 16 seconds
And and it kind of locks in the company meaning like, you know, the company’s not going anywhere. We’ve got a good team that’s bigger.9 minutes, 22 seconds
We’re going to keep this thing with them for a long time.9 minutes, 24 seconds
And I think that the other side of it is, the first few years I was like,9 minutes, 32 seconds
the company’s over its members, right?9 minutes, 34 seconds
Because it’s old myself order the most money out of money into the stock price.9 minutes, 40 seconds
So it’s actually the best time to get it is I always say that it’s the best time to be in and is up on company is right after the transaction.9 minutes, 47 seconds
Because, as you pointed out, how does the Esop pay for it?9 minutes, 50 seconds
Well, the company cash flows pays for the Esop.9 minutes, 53 seconds
So if you get in right after the transaction, you get a ride that way.9 minutes, 58 seconds
You know, it’s basically like it’s very simple system.10 minutes, 1 second
It’s complicated at first when you’re trying to understand it, but once you start dealing with that, you’re like, oh, I get it now.Chapter 9: Understanding ESOP Mechanics
10 minutes, 6 seconds
I was really nervous when we first started it.10 minutes, 8 seconds
We had to hire a trustee board of directors, and and I’m like, oh man, what’s this trustee going to do?10 minutes, 13 seconds
She’s going to come in and tell exactly what to do and ask you. Weird. She’s been great.10 minutes, 18 seconds
I talked to her once, quarter or once a month sometimes.10 minutes, 21 seconds
And had we have conversation aware of the exactly the financial bar it’s been a really easy transition for us. Yeah.10 minutes, 27 seconds
For you listeners, the trustee, if you listen to other episodes, you’ll know this,10 minutes, 30 seconds
but they act as the fiduciary for the Esop trust. And in these negotiations, they are the buyer, you know,10 minutes, 37 seconds
so they’re on the other side of the table and key.10 minutes, 40 seconds
When we do help the business owners help the company. So we’re on the other side, you know,10 minutes, 44 seconds
and there’s an arm’s length negotiation that goes back and forth after the transaction.10 minutes, 49 seconds
The trustee is viewed as a business partner,10 minutes, 51 seconds
and they want to stay in contact with the business generally not going to take a board seat.10 minutes, 56 seconds
Maybe there’s some negotiation on independent board seats and so on.Chapter 10: Role of the Trustee Explained
10 minutes, 59 seconds
But the hallmark of a good trustee is to really focus on the Esop,11 minutes, 5 seconds
and that is through Sheryl making sure that everything’s working well under the lens of the Esop. So arts experience here, you know, highlights that, you know,11 minutes, 12 seconds
several years in the trustee that matrix says she has is that, you know, sort of a strong partner,11 minutes, 19 seconds
but allowing the board and the company to operate as they would normally. And you know, the board,11 minutes, 26 seconds
like you seem really like we don’t we were private companies. We never had a board.11 minutes, 29 seconds
So we had to hire two independent board members.11 minutes, 32 seconds
We had first first year, one setting year, we had to get the second one.11 minutes, 35 seconds
And then I had my partners on there and she had those on there.11 minutes, 38 seconds
And so you didn’t really know how this really worked.11 minutes, 40 seconds
I had to learn how to run a board meeting. Right. The stuff that you would never have, I never thought about.Chapter 11: Building a Board & Governance Changes
11 minutes, 45 seconds
So we’re sitting there and that actually what I found is it’s totally board members. They have so much experience. It’s actually been helping the company.11 minutes, 52 seconds
And so I’m, I’m actually been talking you just read for this podcast,11 minutes, 56 seconds
one of the board members just emailed me and, and we’re working on some change stuff,12 minutes, 1 second
but I need help with this is what she does.12 minutes, 3 seconds
So I’m actually preparing it outside the board to come and help consult with us. It’s a benefit to the company, actually. It’s more brain trust at the top. Really helps.12 minutes, 13 seconds
You know, the two members you got, you know, seems like they filled a gap. You know, in essence, right. As you this is part of CFO.12 minutes, 20 seconds
You know, you have that expertise there. So it’s like okay,12 minutes, 24 seconds
these two independents, you ended up picking people that have this deep expertise that’s going to complement and really help drive. Yeah.12 minutes, 32 seconds
Good. Well,12 minutes, 33 seconds
one board member is is a previous CFO of another Esop award.12 minutes, 37 seconds
These are mechanical company like us,12 minutes, 40 seconds
but they’re 20 times bigger than I was like. So I had to see if I was on the board. Yeah, that’s part it. But as you can see I mean, Dan, to talk about an Excel spreadsheet,12 minutes, 48 seconds
they’ll go to town on that. But I my independent, the other one, Cynthia, she’s kind of a business consultant. She’s great.12 minutes, 56 seconds
She brings a whole different perspective on strategy and stuff that we really never thought about. We always just do.13 minutes, 1 second
Like we’ll talk here just because it happened. She’s like, no, no,13 minutes, 4 seconds
we’re going to build a plan and we’re going to get there. You know what I mean? And I have to slow down and be like, okay, you’re right. We need to let’s do this right.13 minutes, 11 seconds
And I wish we would have done this years ago. We would have been a lot harder. Try to have been a couple, 200 or 200 people right now. Yeah.13 minutes, 18 seconds
And you’re on that track, though. You’re you you’re making way. So let’s change gears.Chapter 12: Racing & Business: The Origin Story
13 minutes, 23 seconds
Have been talk about race cars driving here.13 minutes, 26 seconds
So as a race car driving drag racing in particular.13 minutes, 29 seconds
What analogies do you have for your passion which is that auto racing. This I think you were just in Phoenix.13 minutes, 34 seconds
You said racing and building matrix HG from the ground up.13 minutes, 39 seconds
So kind of an interesting story was I was racing before I started matrix and I’ve been racing for a long time. I didn’t have the money to race, but I did,13 minutes, 47 seconds
and I was sitting in my trailer sweating and drinking water on this is pumped, right? These people, nice race cars, motorhomes.13 minutes, 55 seconds
And I’m like, how are they doing?13 minutes, 56 seconds
Is I’m working my blood up if I can’t afford this stuff?14 minutes
And finally I kept talking about people and then also the owner of properties. Okay, okay, I know what you do.14 minutes, 5 seconds
So I went to grab my partner that’d be floating on the lake. And I said, hey, what’s the one company? And, he’s like, let’s do it.14 minutes, 12 seconds
So that much like when we started matrix $2,000 and out of, I asked Google Vans and that I built part of the company I can afford to race.14 minutes, 23 seconds
But that was how it also.14 minutes, 25 seconds
And it kind of goes the same, like when you have like the difference between a good employee and a great of what is possible. If you have passion,14 minutes, 33 seconds
you will push through it. And, you know, I think the county’s important. I think it’s the thing where when, everything’s on fire,14 minutes, 40 seconds
you put your feet marching through added racing.14 minutes, 43 seconds
It’s the same thing if you you raced bikes and triathlons. It’s the same thing.14 minutes, 48 seconds
You get to get beat up and want to say there’s no quit. It’s put your head down, right. And in racing,Chapter 13: Lessons from Racing & Competition
14 minutes, 55 seconds
there’s times when the car’s ready to go.14 minutes, 58 seconds
Yet I had one I would, you know, 16 hour drive, choke test. I worked these cards perfectly together.15 minutes, 4 seconds
I get there, unload my car, that one,15 minutes, 6 seconds
that and there’s water going off the head. It wouldn’t even got there. I rolled it, shove it at the car and.15 minutes, 14 seconds
Okay, we end up winning the race.15 minutes, 16 seconds
But I was I was the you know that if you don’t have the car, you don’t have that want, it won’t work. And then the competition,15 minutes, 22 seconds
anybody out there that know what they know,15 minutes, 26 seconds
we’re the probably the best team in the world. And, you have, you know, you take care of good people and,15 minutes, 34 seconds
generally when it comes to my neighborhood, it’s never, hey, we do this great job. Here you go. It’s good we got this problem. Here you go. Okay.15 minutes, 42 seconds
And so racing for me is that big.15 minutes, 44 seconds
You know when it out then when I go racing I relaxed. I let my brain turn off of work.15 minutes, 48 seconds
You know, I could put it off because I know I’m won’t be competitive if I’m thinking about work. So it’s kind of goes handy. Absolutely. Nice escape.15 minutes, 56 seconds
Absolutely nice focus outside of the intense focus of the business.16 minutes
Now of course, racing very intense to every second or every. Yeah, I lost by 17/10,000 of a second. Phoenix. I’m still that.16 minutes, 8 seconds
It was my fault, I missed I,16 minutes, 10 seconds
I made a little mistake and cost me that way. And that’s very similar to bike racing. And actually the time. So you can do these races, lasts for,16 minutes, 18 seconds
you know,16 minutes, 18 seconds
four hours and it’s a photo finish at the, you know, and then you had to figure out, okay, who actually crossed the line first. Yeah.16 minutes, 25 seconds
So bike racing is very similar to a car racing and also the time trials, in bike racing. And it’s basically you against the clock.16 minutes, 32 seconds
But there’s 20, 30 other or 50 or sometimes 100 in a big race,16 minutes, 35 seconds
other people and everyone is going every 30s and then those,16 minutes, 39 seconds
those can often come down to a very, very split second, you know, to see who actually won. Right. So oh yeah, the precision there.16 minutes, 48 seconds
But that’s why we do it. If it was easy, I wouldn’t do it for, I dare bike ride. It’s unbelievable ride.16 minutes, 55 seconds
And I love the boats and everything else, but we Val,16 minutes, 58 seconds
we always made the joke on the dirt bike trails. If you didn’t know which way I went. If there’s a hard way or easy way, go the hard way. That’s where I will. I will not ever go the easy way.17 minutes, 7 seconds
Yeah, that analogy I made comes through to a business, right? Has you decided? Hey, the young age, dark matrix age. She from the ground out. Take on that risk.17 minutes, 15 seconds
Work hard because it probably would have been easier. You know, the past 25 years of you,17 minutes, 20 seconds
you know, stayed put not me I was I was 26. So I started the company,17 minutes, 25 seconds
got married, my son all in the same year. I was like, well, if we’re going to do it,17 minutes, 30 seconds
we just started this is create Chaos by now. That’s the best time. And it worked out well.17 minutes, 35 seconds
So let’s talk about resiliency here too, because,Chapter 14: Economic Cycles & Business Resilience
17 minutes, 38 seconds
I mean, you all went through a couple ups and downs through the economic cycles.17 minutes, 43 seconds
You know you started in 2002 here in the Bay area. That was right.17 minutes, 47 seconds
Post.com 1.0 and then zero eight downturn. You know so on.17 minutes, 53 seconds
So kind of talk about that in terms of ups and downs.17 minutes, 57 seconds
Were there days where it was super hard as an entrepreneur, you know, in those downturns, you know,18 minutes, 2 seconds
and then you know, basically working hard smart through that and how that basically translates,18 minutes, 9 seconds
you know, really to where you’ve built matrix today. You know, I consider you on a, you know,18 minutes, 14 seconds
very strong position in the marketplace and what you do, you know, and those lessons, you know, well, you know, one of the things we learned,18 minutes, 21 seconds
I learned a very, very harshly was during during the because when it got up, we were everyone and every company, just 100%.18 minutes, 32 seconds
The money you work fell on you.18 minutes, 34 seconds
You need change on data. And we were all buried. I didn’t see it coming.18 minutes, 41 seconds
You know, I think I think I was nine,18 minutes, 44 seconds
I was running 101 and then all of a sudden I. I didn’t know what happened.18 minutes, 51 seconds
I didn’t see it coming real slow down the hill. It was just growing. And,18 minutes, 57 seconds
I was really like, how did you come up every two months? I model, I said, he’s selling.Chapter 15: Navigating COVID & Staying Operational
19 minutes, 6 seconds
I don’t care how busy you are and what had happened. We got so busy, I got back a little sales a little bit. We just couldn’t get it.19 minutes, 13 seconds
I couldn’t get the work done. And what I’ve learned is I don’t care. Get the work and we’ll make it happen.19 minutes, 19 seconds
Because you never know when it’s going to stop. So focus on sales.19 minutes, 23 seconds
That really helped you get through those valleys.19 minutes, 28 seconds
On those economic contractions that happened. Yeah. And that’s great advice.19 minutes, 32 seconds
And I think that applies to all industries in I mean, that was I mean, unprecedented, right? No. We’ve ever been through this.19 minutes, 39 seconds
We’re in California. So we were the first to shut down. And we don’t know what’s going on.19 minutes, 44 seconds
And what we we basically transitioned immediately because I found who was going to be open and that was government schools,19 minutes, 53 seconds
essential stuff.19 minutes, 54 seconds
So we I switched my team to go find what’s essential and where we can keep working. And we did a good job with it. Stayed busy.20 minutes, 1 second
Yeah, I recall looking at the financials,20 minutes, 4 seconds
you know, back then during the Covid,20 minutes, 5 seconds
some of your competitors who didn’t pivot right.20 minutes, 8 seconds
They they definitely noticed a huge pullback in revenue. Right. Because offices no one was going there.20 minutes, 14 seconds
So you still have to maintain all those all the systems had to be maintained.20 minutes, 17 seconds
But you know it’s not going to the wear and tear.20 minutes, 20 seconds
And you know and the maintenance probably goes down you know as an empty building versus does it where it goes down.20 minutes, 25 seconds
But they still have to run it for a minimum. Yeah.20 minutes, 27 seconds
And for fresh air and keep boilers hot because a lot of the building what happens is the piping will actually. What’s up. The hot water goes cold.20 minutes, 35 seconds
They have big, tall, gaskets, and they start leaking. So they have to keep building, kind of running. And, so we just found a way to stay busy.20 minutes, 43 seconds
And that was the key was to keep working. And,20 minutes, 46 seconds
a lot of people wanted to work around with the stay home screen. We’re not that way.20 minutes, 51 seconds
But how do we going take care of our building? It’s big working, right? Yeah. Because you are in the fields, you know, it’s. Yeah, to be out in the field.20 minutes, 58 seconds
And so our mechanics are union.21 minutes
Well, we don’t get paid if they’re not working or might I, I take it to heart that these guys can’t pay the bill.21 minutes, 8 seconds
You know, I want to see the buy home,21 minutes, 10 seconds
because take care of the families when all of a sudden it’s like, you know, they need to stay home. I was like,21 minutes, 14 seconds
we’re going to go find work that they can go work out. And, should be okay. It’s important.21 minutes, 19 seconds
Sometimes you’re going to try to just make fun of it.21 minutes, 21 seconds
That instinct worked well during the pandemic. Yeah. What do you see now? You know, year 2026. You know,Chapter 16: Market Outlook & Industry Trends
21 minutes, 29 seconds
I know a couple of years ago,21 minutes, 30 seconds
you know, interest rates went up and, you know, there was a saying survive to 2025.21 minutes, 35 seconds
I know that was like the same when we were doing the deal back in 2023. So, you know,21 minutes, 40 seconds
we’re seeing for Cisco still it’s it’s well coming back. It’s not going to be even for a while.21 minutes, 46 seconds
We’re seeing the tears pick up which talent for the work.21 minutes, 48 seconds
A lot of capital works down a little bit because people are they’re waiting for the buildings to start filling back up.21 minutes, 54 seconds
So they’re actually trying to get them to move in and sort of spending money there.21 minutes, 57 seconds
But they’re trying to just rebuild the old system of wheelchairs, boilers and cooling towers. And just kind of pushing that off.22 minutes, 4 seconds
This year’s going to be a good year. I just finished up. There’s work there.22 minutes, 9 seconds
We’re picked up working and there’s one right now. But we’re you know, service always say that it works.22 minutes, 14 seconds
We we have a pretty big service department. And then we mainly do retrofit works. They’ll retrofit work for us. There’s rebuilding buildings.22 minutes, 21 seconds
And so they don’t want to go.22 minutes, 23 seconds
We’re not building a lot of buildings right now,22 minutes, 25 seconds
but we are rebuilding and repairing the old ones.22 minutes, 27 seconds
And that’s really fits our our niche pretty well. That’s great. It. Yeah.22 minutes, 30 seconds
And the Bay area obviously I always say you can tell the economy of a metro area by the billboards occurs on the 80,22 minutes, 38 seconds
the one on one these days.22 minutes, 39 seconds
It’s all I you know, I hate to say it like this because we obviously need to stay around.22 minutes, 44 seconds
We don’t know which companies are always going to be a couple little ball.22 minutes, 47 seconds
And there’s always the new the you know what happened in 2008?22 minutes, 50 seconds
A lot of people were putting out their eggs.22 minutes, 52 seconds
Those companies were making money off people, investing a lot in them.22 minutes, 55 seconds
Some of those companies went under and it costs a lot of people a lot of money.22 minutes, 58 seconds
So I, I’m, I’m a little hesitant because I feel that they’re a little overvalued. But I’m blessed for the work. I’ll take the work, you know, and then in the in a few years,23 minutes, 7 seconds
it’ll be some other trend. You just got to be able to transition. Exactly. It sounds like, you know, a speed of, of changing course pivoting. Right.Chapter 17: ESOP Flexibility & Strategic Freedom
23 minutes, 14 seconds
That’s been one of the key strengths that you all and matrixes you have. You know, the ability to do that.23 minutes, 19 seconds
You’re on the pivot quickly in a smart way to understanding, hey, this this is where we should be.23 minutes, 25 seconds
Let’s let’s focus there and the nice thing about these are we’re not restricted to anything.23 minutes, 30 seconds
I don’t have to go ask anybody for permission. I see an opportunity. We’re taking it. I, I still make the final stage now. It’s allowed us to cut.23 minutes, 38 seconds
It’s freed us up to, like, start rotating the company. So it’s employee owned.23 minutes, 42 seconds
You know, sort of a you’ll stay independent, right?23 minutes, 45 seconds
Because overall board’s job is to support the CEO, make sure the CEO has the support necessary to execute.23 minutes, 53 seconds
Right, right. Drive stock value. That’s my job.23 minutes, 56 seconds
I have to keep telling myself that it’s all right. I still like going and helping people. And I got to get back in work like,24 minutes, 4 seconds
no, no, no, no.24 minutes, 4 seconds
But your job is to go create, plan, stick looking farther down the road. Yeah. Luckily, this is up to you to value once a year.24 minutes, 12 seconds
So you’re not subject to the quarterly earnings. You know, like that public company. Yeah. Yeah.24 minutes, 17 seconds
I’d lie if I didn’t think I was running the numbers every month, like, okay, let’s just do it, you know. Oh that’s yeah, that’s a fun part to do. So once you understand the value metrics,24 minutes, 25 seconds
what really drives it. You know, it’s cash flows.24 minutes, 27 seconds
Basically if we’re esops then say okay what is this look like. Increase this lower five 1,015%.24 minutes, 35 seconds
Right. Go big. Increase it by 40%. You know. What is that. Yeah.24 minutes, 40 seconds
The hard part right now for everything I do think is finding quality people to come and do the work. Right.24 minutes, 45 seconds
It’s one thing I we want a whole our quality, our level of excellence high. It’s hard to do.24 minutes, 52 seconds
I need new people finding people that are tech. You Bernard area. So tech is pays really good. You have to compete with that.24 minutes, 59 seconds
And then a lot of people want to go at it. You know they kind of lost it inside.25 minutes, 5 seconds
Like I think realistically when I start seeing that money is going to be if people actually can go repair things to fix.25 minutes, 13 seconds
Yeah, I’m seeing that in our client base as well.25 minutes, 15 seconds
So, you know, for people that actually know how to fix and build things.25 minutes, 20 seconds
Yeah, you know, overall and time will tell. Right.25 minutes, 25 seconds
But it seems like I know you’ll build the operate a business smoother, you know, so on less friction you know.25 minutes, 31 seconds
But those skills are always going to be in demand. Yep. It don’t it won’t. People need to be have hot water. You know we to talk showers.25 minutes, 39 seconds
Everybody’s got to have you know be comfortable outside their buildings like pool and heating. So that has to happen. Yeah it’s has to.25 minutes, 48 seconds
And then you think the future too.25 minutes, 49 seconds
You know there’s this idea of converting offices to residential. I mean it’s not even an idea. You know, it’s been gone.25 minutes, 56 seconds
They’ve been talking about it for a while, you know, vacant offices and so on.26 minutes
All those places have to be replaced and rejiggered on that. Each fax systems. Yeah.26 minutes, 5 seconds
So I was in the Salesforce Tower this week and I mean, speak about complex Hvac system that all these glass buildings. Right.26 minutes, 14 seconds
And they just trap heat. Yeah. You know what? You have just skills. It’s a very the, temperate climate. They’re not a fog.26 minutes, 22 seconds
The buildings are so close,26 minutes, 22 seconds
they don’t get a whole lot of sunlight or solar load on them, but they do.26 minutes, 26 seconds
I mean, there’s a lot of deep inside and and,26 minutes, 30 seconds
But the economize hours we used to college, actually, I was doing something else. And you guys on the East Coast, right?26 minutes, 35 seconds
What state economies are what here we use economize. Must begin back east.26 minutes, 41 seconds
They have they have so much you willing to dictate use free cooling. And we’re economize.26 minutes, 45 seconds
We’re we would bring in a cool outside and just run the plans a little higher and and use that to help cool the buildings. And, before it gets too warm,26 minutes, 53 seconds
then we have to start drilling the the chillers or whatever else we have to whatever equipment we got along. So.26 minutes, 58 seconds
So Cisco though, it’s it’s very diverse city Lake,27 minutes, 2 seconds
there’s just very diverse place and, which makes you kind of fun to work out. Yeah, I can imagine those large old buildings, a lot of them have steam, right?27 minutes, 10 seconds
Like steam, steam heat.27 minutes, 13 seconds
And these are all the systems are underground, right? I mean, I’m talking about in the basement.27 minutes, 21 seconds
Yeah. Like a lot of our equipment. Like, we’ll have two orders and boiler. It’s gonna be like,27 minutes, 25 seconds
throughout the building, like, charge the other room or there’ll be baggage or never really in the middle,27 minutes, 30 seconds
but the boilers are generally on the roof on the high rise with one on the basement.27 minutes, 34 seconds
You got to run them through all the way up.27 minutes, 36 seconds
So that’s why some of these buildings and on the roof you see like steam basically generating here on cooling towers Road to use that good stuff. Okay.27 minutes, 44 seconds
Changing gears how the overall eyesore transaction.Chapter 18: ESOP Transaction Experience
27 minutes, 47 seconds
Was there a moment during diligence where you question whether these was actually the right call? You know, so I know due diligence, right. With the trustee team, the banks, you know,27 minutes, 55 seconds
there’s a whole data layers.27 minutes, 56 seconds
You know, under another question everything. And that process can be quite stressful.28 minutes, 1 second
So I was there a point where were like hey what am I doing. No. You know, we know what the final goal was. And we wanted to get there.28 minutes, 9 seconds
And she just honestly learning about understanding game what this means.28 minutes, 13 seconds
Cuz a lot of terms and and rules that we had to kind of abide by or figure out. I didn’t know what they meant.28 minutes, 19 seconds
So we just had to it was more just learning more.28 minutes, 21 seconds
And we kind of learned every day from it, from you guys.28 minutes, 24 seconds
What a lot of trying to figure out that it once we kind of saw how it all worked,28 minutes, 28 seconds
because I think we had more fear in our head that it was actually real and all the unknowns. You just don’t understand it, do.28 minutes, 34 seconds
You’re kind of afraid what you don’t know.28 minutes, 35 seconds
But obviously the transaction was my advice, probably like, hey, I want it. I could get it done in three months. Yeah. It’s not that I get maybe really lucky,28 minutes, 45 seconds
but definitely give yourself more time to keep yourself on time.28 minutes, 48 seconds
It put the pressure on because it just gets more stressful. Just transactions. They go through distinct phases, you know,28 minutes, 56 seconds
so condensing everything three months, that is pretty quick. You know, for the first phase you want to assess,29 minutes, 2 seconds
hey, is this even interesting value structure branded a bank not about eight months from start to finish, all said and done.29 minutes, 10 seconds
Yeah.29 minutes, 10 seconds
And I think that was about with your transaction would end up being from the time we initially started were to actually close,29 minutes, 18 seconds
you know, and that allowed for good decision making along each phase,29 minutes, 24 seconds
you know, versus what money is actually really good with, helping us like, hey, what will happen the next phase?29 minutes, 32 seconds
Prepare for this. Okay. You agreed and you put it.29 minutes, 36 seconds
It’s the unknown is what I always keep to kind of, like, not scare us, but kind of like, you get more questions and answers.29 minutes, 42 seconds
And then once we understood how it all worked, we went, okay, it can get that done. Trying to manage those unknown unknowns. Yeah. I think you all asked me to like,29 minutes, 51 seconds
hey, how can this whole thing blow up? You know, what’s the downside? Yeah. You know, it’s like, well,29 minutes, 55 seconds
the downside is like, the downside with anything, you know, is doesn’t work. It’s the only way this works. The company’s got a cash flow.30 minutes, 3 seconds
If you’re not cash blown,30 minutes, 4 seconds
you start pricing going up and you’re not getting paid back.30 minutes, 7 seconds
So there’s a couple different ways you could do this.Chapter 19: Structuring the ESOP Deal
30 minutes, 9 seconds
So we did 100% of these off and we did 0% funded by a bank. So we self-financed it.30 minutes, 15 seconds
So myself and my partner basically for all of our shares in the company put in this truck. And now that trust owes us the money.30 minutes, 22 seconds
And he’s like take the money out of the legal loophole there. But you can’t pay you any money. Not like before.30 minutes, 28 seconds
So, but we took that risk to kind of keep the company and, we get each.30 minutes, 37 seconds
And so it’s like, so but some people were realistic, right.30 minutes, 41 seconds
You provided based on the spot where some of these 70,000 years old and they don’t want to pay on or like they need somebody to take over,30 minutes, 49 seconds
look to different reasons. Definitely.30 minutes, 51 seconds
I mean, I’ve noticed a trend as well with a lot of our clients in the past several years are similar to your profile.30 minutes, 58 seconds
You know, where you still have runway left,Chapter 20: Planning Succession the Right Way
31 minutes
but you’ve built this company and you’re very intentional about what that future looks like. And you want to,31 minutes, 5 seconds
you know, basically plan and execute your own solution there versus, you know, waiting, you know,31 minutes, 11 seconds
which we have seen with older generations, you know, where it’s like, okay,31 minutes, 14 seconds
you have now a majority shareholder here who might be well past retirement age and then start to think, hey, what’s my exit? Right.31 minutes, 22 seconds
And that’s a whole different solution and a whole different,31 minutes, 25 seconds
you know, it’s a it’s interesting that we’ve seen it.31 minutes, 27 seconds
I’ve seen we’ve been to some auctions where old HPC companies are up for auction. You see the old owner in the desk, dirty desk and just angry.31 minutes, 36 seconds
And I’m like, I never want to end up like that. I want to be that person.31 minutes, 39 seconds
And we’ve got such good all year,31 minutes, 42 seconds
or we’re trying to groom them to take over for us.31 minutes, 45 seconds
I want somebody that’s passionate about the passion I had years ago where they’re just ready to go. Let’s take, you know, take the mug, run away with it.31 minutes, 53 seconds
And that’s what we need. The company needs, right. And I,31 minutes, 58 seconds
I won’t I don’t have that as much to like you and the company.32 minutes, 2 seconds
I feel I’m doing it this year completely where I have a lot of experience helpful.32 minutes, 8 seconds
But I want to see it in the one way you are not.32 minutes, 12 seconds
I can’t tell you how to be the leader of a company, how to make y hard decisions.32 minutes, 18 seconds
You’ve got to be in the hot seat and you can make mistakes. I got what I’m doing.32 minutes, 23 seconds
So having that culture in place tier that’s growth oriented, you know, says, hey, let’s let’s grow. Learn on the journey here.Chapter 21: Growth vs. Profitability
32 minutes, 31 seconds
You know, and I’ve learned we’ve learned the hard way. Growth isn’t always great. It’s positive. Profitable growth is great.32 minutes, 39 seconds
And growth chasing revenue doesn’t work. It’s chasing profit works.32 minutes, 44 seconds
And so we we pass it or hold on we want to make.32 minutes, 48 seconds
And then then we really are able to get there. And that is helped us a lot.32 minutes, 55 seconds
You sound like a CEO that’s concerned about feature stock price. They’re my job growth profile.33 minutes
Well growths my friends in tech it’s you know they always just talk about growth right. Because you don’t care about profit.33 minutes, 5 seconds
You’re on Myspace and it’s all these top companies. It’s like cash flows profit. That’s what matters not just growth. It’s good.33 minutes, 12 seconds
It’s a different mindset like but it works.33 minutes, 15 seconds
I honestly, I’m a very conservative person when it comes to growth now because I’ve learned the hard way multiple times. And and I laugh at people. I actually laugh at myself now.33 minutes, 24 seconds
You see a lot of people,33 minutes, 25 seconds
but I laugh at myself where I’d be like, oh, you went to college? I didn’t go to college, my partner didn’t go to college. And I’m like,33 minutes, 30 seconds
you spend a couple hundred thousand dollars for education. I was free and I was like, I was proud of that.33 minutes, 35 seconds
And now that I’m an old man and I’m looking at this, I’m like, wow.33 minutes, 38 seconds
I think my education cost me about $20 billion.33 minutes, 41 seconds
How much I’ve mistakes that made over the last 24 years. And I’m like, you know, so and so. It’s kind of laughable.33 minutes, 49 seconds
But overall I just didn’t see it. And now I’m seeing you.33 minutes, 53 seconds
And one of my experience to the younger generation and, and, help them out as much as I can. Yeah. And all the employees at matrix.Chapter 22: Final Thoughts on Leadership & Team
34 minutes, 2 seconds
Yeah. You know, they have a great leader in you, and they’re lucky to have that. You know, the mentor I.34 minutes, 7 seconds
And I’m honestly extremely lucky to have them because we have such good people. I do enjoy working with them.34 minutes, 13 seconds
And they want to do a good job and they work hard.34 minutes, 15 seconds
No, we’re obviously we’re not driven by the industry. So always have answer always.34 minutes, 21 seconds
You’re never calling it is they want to give you good news or you know,34 minutes, 24 seconds
something broke and they need you to kind of figure it so that underneath the chip,34 minutes, 28 seconds
the constant go and I have it’s a different unique mentality. Absolutely. So you have a,34 minutes, 35 seconds
you had a 5050 business partner and you both you and Dan both decide to go down the seesaw path.34 minutes, 41 seconds
From my perspective, you both had is this a unanimous you know,34 minutes, 46 seconds
it didn’t seem like there’s much friction,34 minutes, 47 seconds
but was there at all, you know, with the in that kind of 50, 50 situation, you know, because the move forward, obviously we both had to say,34 minutes, 54 seconds
yes, let’s, let’s do this. You know, we we it’s funny.34 minutes, 59 seconds
Have you ever met Dan and you meet me here about poor officers gets the polar opposite view. But when it comes to business, we kind of,35 minutes, 7 seconds
you know, if it’s you made a call, I’d back them up. If I made a call. You back me up. You might not always approve of it,35 minutes, 13 seconds
but he was like, hey, Bart made that whole goal with it. And so we came to this. It was we generally have the same idea, luckily.35 minutes, 21 seconds
Like, if I put together the corn walk, I didn’t have to, like, I would never worry about anything. And when we did this, we’re like,35 minutes, 29 seconds
what’s the best way to give this property, this company going these up kept coming up. And then finally,35 minutes, 36 seconds
once we started really worrying about it,35 minutes, 38 seconds
we decided, yeah, this is it was a pretty easy that was my takeaway as well, was,35 minutes, 44 seconds
hey, these two business partners have alignment. There wasn’t friction.35 minutes, 49 seconds
Sometimes there is you know we’re one is into it.35 minutes, 52 seconds
And the other side is I don’t know I don’t know, you know,35 minutes, 55 seconds
let’s let’s think about something different. So having that alignment, I mean,35 minutes, 59 seconds
and the trust I think that’s all built to trust something of the day, as you said.36 minutes, 3 seconds
And it’s when you have that,36 minutes, 5 seconds
then it’s like, okay, you can make good decisions and scale for the future. Yeah.36 minutes, 12 seconds
You know, like I said, it’s one of those things where it’s a big decision. I mean,36 minutes, 15 seconds
we built this company and we’ve had like a long, long term to lose our stuff tied to it. Like any business owner out there,36 minutes, 22 seconds
every bank has their fingers in my trust.36 minutes, 25 seconds
If I house anything I own and pretty big deal.36 minutes, 30 seconds
You learn it during lunch and and you’ll find generally older or sharper night at the end. You’re grumpy, grouchy,36 minutes, 38 seconds
and just tired of what? We beat you up every day and and and, that that is pretty interesting.36 minutes, 46 seconds
One for us is it is trying to get these guys a start stating like, hey, okay, I want you to make these decisions. You know, let’s start learning.36 minutes, 54 seconds
But it’s a, going Esau. I think it’s kind of awkward. Exact. Like, okay,37 minutes, 2 seconds
this was really like giving us the bandwidth to like, hey, the copies are hard. What is our record really look like now?37 minutes, 11 seconds
You know, so it kind of opened it up or was like, oh, we have eight or now it’s real. Now we have it in place. You keep running.37 minutes, 19 seconds
You know what? Stop.37 minutes, 20 seconds
I think that you got a global strategy for me.37 minutes, 24 seconds
How are we doing that and how will you stop that to be taken care of now? Is that you dealing with people? So in the end,37 minutes, 32 seconds
the Esop allowed business continuity was a great solution for you and Dan to sell your shares,37 minutes, 40 seconds
get some liquidity, obviously get good value for your company,37 minutes, 44 seconds
you know, but still be involved and really craft and plan your asset as you scale the business up to be successful in the future.37 minutes, 51 seconds
And we talked about is is you’d only been meaning to kill me like a 1089 employee where I stay on as kind of an advisor or the CEO for our time, or I’m,38 minutes, 1 second
you know, couple zoom meetings,38 minutes, 3 seconds
we type thing and just helping transfer the knowledge. 24 years holding a company,38 minutes, 9 seconds
you learn a lot and it’s stuff that you don’t think about,38 minutes, 12 seconds
but you already know the answer before somebody asks you the question.38 minutes, 15 seconds
And something new is not going to have that. So you can kind of help that out. Absolutely. And you have time on a CEO. So it’s like, hey,38 minutes, 23 seconds
I know you’re probably thinking, hey, the next couple of years, what does that look like? So fast forward five years, a recent war. Oh, absolutely. Absolutely.38 minutes, 32 seconds
This year actually,38 minutes, 32 seconds
we’re going to run the whole piece in on the West Coast.38 minutes, 34 seconds
But there’s a lot of stuff on the East Coast that we haven’t raised.38 minutes, 36 seconds
I’ve only raised a few times dollars and Illinois once. It’s just a drive in time.38 minutes, 42 seconds
And one year I my mentality was always I had to be backed.38 minutes, 45 seconds
I’ve been wanting for work and I’m a very strict person on myself, so I’ve learned for meaning.38 minutes, 51 seconds
I need to have somebody coherent if I’m not worried about it.38 minutes, 53 seconds
You know, a lot of free me up to to raise more and that that’s really my goal, not just racing.38 minutes, 58 seconds
We like to travel and and go up to the mountains and, and fish and pike.39 minutes, 2 seconds
And so if I could do that more, I would be happy person. That’s great. ESOP built the foundation.39 minutes, 8 seconds
So nature says she seems to have a bright future. Yeah. The right team in place. Focus on profitable growth, increasing the stock price,39 minutes, 16 seconds
you know,39 minutes, 16 seconds
getting that next generation of ownership.39 minutes, 18 seconds
Been there and excited and passionate for the future. Yeah, absolutely.39 minutes, 23 seconds
It’s important are people that the company is nothing without people. So true.39 minutes, 28 seconds
And it’s more important now than ever is hey your best assets they’re they drive on the parking lot each day.39 minutes, 35 seconds
Well and you see most people now is the next generation of, younger younger generation coming up.39 minutes, 41 seconds
They were raised different and they’ve been exposed to different things than we were back in the day,39 minutes, 46 seconds
where a lot of them don’t like to communicate over the phone or in person. They’d rather text or email.39 minutes, 52 seconds
I hate that, I hate it because there’s no connection to people, and I enjoy that.39 minutes, 57 seconds
So, getting the next generation to be more comfortable with talking to people and dealing with conflict resolution without panicking and being freaked out like, it’s okay,40 minutes, 6 seconds
you know, making a mistake, it’s okay. We’ll make them still make them, you know, and, getting them comfortable with,40 minutes, 15 seconds
you know, they’re people are ready to make it home. And I’ve never met people that I’ve, I’ve always been, like, all in.40 minutes, 23 seconds
And while I think the next time, let’s learn from it,40 minutes, 26 seconds
I learned more from my last five mistakes. But I do my way. Yeah. What are the learning lessons here? Right. Because if there are, then it wasn’t really a mistake.40 minutes, 35 seconds
You know, if there are on the. Yeah, I. Yeah. Exactly.40 minutes, 40 seconds
So yeah that’s all that is baked into the culture of nature. You know, I saw that, you know,40 minutes, 45 seconds
when we set up the Esop several years back and obviously we’re still involved,40 minutes, 49 seconds
you know, at Menke handling the annual Reichard keeping.40 minutes, 53 seconds
You know all that with our compliance team and as a culture. And that’s one key thing.40 minutes, 57 seconds
The unifying theme here is is culture and whether to go ISO up or not. You know you have cash flows. You have this you have that.41 minutes, 3 seconds
But culture is one of the main reasons whether to go to that path or not. Right? Yeah.41 minutes, 11 seconds
I think, you know, you look at I was thinking about this morning and I was like, you know, we’re like a small company. And they open a single owner and they,41 minutes, 20 seconds
they do everything probably not to be their best.41 minutes, 23 seconds
Most they have somebody up and coming at you push them out of their seat or you want to go Esop and then build the team.41 minutes, 30 seconds
It’s a lot like you need to have like a manager that wanted to step up. That’s important. Exactly. Yeah.41 minutes, 37 seconds
To have that culture, people as a building block to to make that whole thing work. Exactly.41 minutes, 44 seconds
Thanks so much for joining us today. How can people find you?41 minutes, 48 seconds
Well, I need that energy radiates along the West Coast, the Jovian matrix, AC, obviously bloodline.41 minutes, 54 seconds
But if somebody ever used to reach out my, I think my numbers, not originals. Only if you already have any question, probably reach out to me. I’ll meet with some some occult,42 minutes, 2 seconds
company next week that they’re looking at,42 minutes, 4 seconds
but they want to have one and pick my brain a little bit. I always look at it,42 minutes, 8 seconds
and I’ve been helped throughout the years by people with more experience. I mean, so I can help anybody I like. It’s I like seeing people. Thanks, Art,42 minutes, 15 seconds
and thanks everyone for joining us today. Check out Esop radio on LinkedIn, Spotify, YouTube, Apple, and also check out mickey.com.42 minutes, 23 seconds
We have a lot of Esop news, etc. on there. The Trevor Gilmore, CEO of Menke.42 minutes, 28 seconds
Thanks and stay tuned for the future episode. Have an awesome day everyone!Planning an Exit in the Next 1–5 Years?
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About ESOP Radio
ESOP Radio is the official ESOP podcast from Menke — where real stories of growth, succession, and long-term wealth building are told.
Hosted by Trevor Gilmore and Ben Spadt, the show features conversations and educational episodes designed to help business owners better understand employee ownership.
Disclaimer
This podcast is provided for educational purposes only and does not constitute legal, tax, investment, or fiduciary advice.
Phil DeDominicis is an ESOP strategist and M&A advisor who has guided 300+ companies through ESOP formations, financing, and transactions over 20+ years at Menke & Associates. He specializes in selling ESOP‑owned businesses to financial or strategic buyers and in helping ESOP companies acquire other businesses.
